Expected movement

[JetFumes]

Just curious what a new hire at the new United, Delta, or American could expect in terms of upgrade times, time to get into a widebody, etc. How long to get a base west of the mississippi? Thinking about leaving my current employer (JetBlue).

 

[180ToTheMarker]

Just curious what a new hire at the new United, Delta, or American could expect in terms of upgrade times, time to get into a widebody, etc. How long to get a base west of the mississippi? Thinking about leaving my current employer (JetBlue).

Once we (Delta) start hiring, presumably late next year, it should continue for quite awhile. We have a ton of retirements coming up so I assume one could hold widebody FO fairly soon. However, it should be noted that Delta is not aware that there is anything west of the mississippi.

 

[Scrapdog]

Once we (Delta) start hiring, presumably late next year, it should continue for quite awhile. We have a ton of retirements coming up so I assume one could hold widebody FO fairly soon. However, it should be noted that Delta is not aware that there is anything west of the mississippi.

Same with all the legacies...not unique to DAL.

 

[BentOver]

Just curious what a new hire at the new United, Delta, or American could expect in terms of upgrade times, time to get into a widebody, etc. How long to get a base west of the mississippi? Thinking about leaving my current employer (JetBlue).

Is JB that bad where you'd consider leaving for AA or United? (Delta I could understand) No offense to those two carriers, but they don't seem to be the happiest of pilots.......

 

[General Lee]

People in the training department have been telling people lately in recurrent that there could be 7000 new hires in the next decade. That mirrors what the VP of Flt Ops stated, and the System Chief Pilot stated "at least" 3500. To get to 7000, there would have to be a lot of retirements mixed in with a lot of growth. That means quick movement upwards. There is a one year seat hold for new hires on the initial equipment, and then each upward bid has a two year seat hold. New hire pay by 2015 will be $71 an hour.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[JetFumes]

Is JB that bad where you'd consider leaving for AA or United? (Delta I could understand) No offense to those two carriers, but they don't seem to be the happiest of pilots.......

JetBlue is a good place to work overall. I'm a west coast guy, however, and there's not much hope for any movement out here. A transcon commute is what I'm looking at if I want to upgrade. I'm also looking at the new payrates combined with base diversity, plus the retirement package and health benefits (ours were just gutted), and the picture starts to get interesting. I've been over 7 years, and have consistently been below my peers in many areas. To be fair, I could have upgraded, but I have a young son, and the commute would be a killer for not that much more money.

 

[Draginass]

Forget AA. With management being able to outsource 50% of domestic flying, you'll see huge decreases in pilot jobs, besides being an unhappy place to work.

 

[STL717]

Expected movement is towards chapter 11....

The increase in cost and the reduction in demand will significantly stress all the airlines during the next few years

 

[QCappy]

I'm a west coast guy

Why not Alaska?

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Well with the new scope at UCAL if the TA passes I expect movement from the bottom of our list to the bottom of Skywest or Republic lists, or maybe UsAir for the lucky ones.

 

[General Lee]

Expected movement is towards chapter 11....

The increase in cost and the reduction in demand will significantly stress all the airlines during the next few years

Doubtful. Consolidation will create 3 large legacies with better pricing power. Throw in SWA not having hedges to lower fares, and extra ancillary revenue now available from bag and change fees, and the future does look good for airlines that can afford the gas, sans another 9-11 type event. Look at this recent recession, most legacies still had record profits, even with Europe imploding.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Well with the new scope at UCAL if the TA passes I expect movement from the bottom of our list to the bottom of Skywest or Republic lists, or maybe UsAir for the lucky ones.

The scope at Delta has turned the other way. More 50 seaters will be leaving than 76 seaters coming. Over 200 50 seaters HAVE TO leave. Those routes the 50 seaters are currently flying will be covered by 70 and 76 seaters, trying to make more profits than 50s could due to higher gas. Then, throw in 88 717s covering routes that those previous 76 seaters were flying, trying to increase the profits the 76 seaters were making.

That is something not available yet to the UCAL pilots, 717s or some sort of a "100 seater." Their TA seems to just increase the number of 76 seaters, not mandate a reduction of 50 seaters, and nothing in the 100 seat range to "recapture" ex Mainline routes that went to the Regionals 10 years ago. Let's hope UCAL guys demand that. And those 717s will be paying $195 an hour in the left seat by 2015 (12th year pay), and it will be the smallest DL plane by then. Not bad... Btw, the 17 remaining DC9s will now stay until early 2014, and 14 MD90s will be entering the fleet in 2013, along with 739ERs and 717s.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

The scope at Delta has turned the other way. More 50 seaters will be leaving than 76 seaters coming. Over 200 50 seaters HAVE TO leave. Those routes the 50 seaters are currently flying will be covered by 70 and 76 seaters, trying to make more profits than 50s could due to higher gas. Then, throw in 88 717s covering routes that those previous 76 seaters were flying, trying to increase the profits the 76 seaters were making.

That is something not available yet to the UCAL pilots, 717s or some sort of a "100 seater." Their TA seems to just increase the number of 76 seaters, not mandate a reduction of 50 seaters, and nothing in the 100 seat range to "recapture" ex Mainline routes that went to the Regionals 10 years ago. Let's hope UCAL guys demand that. And those 717s will be paying $195 an hour in the left seat by 2015 (12th year pay), and it will be the smallest DL plane by then. Not bad... Btw, the 17 remaining DC9s will now stay until early 2014, and 14 MD90s will be entering the fleet in 2013, along with 739ERs and 717s.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Then why according to the "other" site is the list shrinking (someone said they "moved up" 800 in 4 years with zero hiring) and no hiring planned for a long time?

 

[General Lee]

Then why according to the "other" site is the list shrinking (someone said they "moved up" 800 in 4 years with zero hiring) and no hiring planned for a long time?

The list is shrinking a bit because we have had a few early out retirements and have decreased capacity in the last year or two, mainly because the widebodies are getting modifications to the lie flat seats and video units in each seat (744). The economy has made each airline bring capacity down slightly to help increase fares. Now add 88 717s, 14 MD90s, and hundreds of retirements per year coming up here. It's call upward movement, something you aren't used to yourself, being a lav dumper in Minot....oh wait, you didn't get that job either. Maybe someday....good luck with that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Expected movement is towards chapter 11....

The increase in cost and the reduction in demand will significantly stress all the airlines during the next few years

Wash, rinse, repeat.