Ex-military corporate pilots

[firstthird]

GVFlyer,

I know very little to knowing about corporate flying. I just disagreed with your statement about SWA being for guys who couldn't get on at the majors. I tried a little irony by making another assumption about corporate jobs, apparently false. A little attempt at humor.

Frankly, from my reserver unit many of the guys who are active duty try to get the GV navy job in Andrews so that they can nab that type rating. I just couldn't let your comment about SWA pass without saying anything. Most of us are proud of who we fly for and don't like to see it run down, like you and GVs (or me and SWA).

I'd say at least half of the guys that I know who went to SWA in the mid-late 90's had SWA as their goal airline. Admittedly, post 9/11 many guys who had started at American or NWA made the move over (the 6 months after getting hired to get a type rating thing). So you are obviously right that for some pilots, SWA was a second tier airline. For the rest of them though, SWA was their first choice and they were right. I, on the other hand, was just lucky.

p.s. I hope that you guys (Gulfstream) pick up that Army RC-12 replacement contract that Lockheed has been ######## up with their E-145 partners. The were supposed to do final assembly at Cecil Field in Jax, but surprise, the E-145 can't carry the crew and equipment that Lockheed/Embraer said it could. The Gov't really ought to rebid that contract or just award it to the other bidders who I'm pretty sure were looking at a GV as their platform (American made and all that)

 

[GVFlyer]

GVFlyer,

I know very little to knowing about corporate flying. I just disagreed with your statement about SWA being for guys who couldn't get on at the majors. I tried a little irony by making another assumption about corporate jobs, apparently false. A little attempt at humor.

Copy that.

Frankly, from my reserver unit many of the guys who are active duty try to get the GV navy job in Andrews so that they can nab that type rating. I just couldn't let your comment about SWA pass without saying anything. Most of us are proud of who we fly for and don't like to see it run down, like you and GVs (or me and SWA).

The pilots I know from the Navy Det at Andrews AFB have done pretty well. One's a MD-11 captain for Fred Smith's FedEx, another is the VP for Aviation at Ecilpse Aviation at Centennial, another is an exec at NetJets and yet another, a reservist who drilled there, is Aviation Director for Broadcom. The last was fired from Gulfstream for total squidism.

p.s. I hope that you guys (Gulfstream) pick up that Army RC-12 replacement contract that Lockheed has been ######## up with their E-145 partners. The were supposed to do final assembly at Cecil Field in Jax, but surprise, the E-145 can't carry the crew and equipment that Lockheed/Embraer said it could. The Gov't really ought to rebid that contract or just award it to the other bidders who I'm pretty sure were looking at a GV as their platform (American made and all that)

Thanks, I now consult for the Big G. Most of the pilots in Gulfstream Flight Test are ex-military, principally because they don't know any better - work five days a week and one weekend a month for a buck and a quarter and a 3% percent per annum defined benefit pension plan - "Sure, you bet! Sounds like what I was doing in the military except for more pay." One of our customers offered me a position that was essentially, "Fly half as much, get paid twice as much." I deliberated for about a milisecond and took the job. I still have time to fly the occasional aircraft delivery, completion test flight, technical evaluation or assist in the sales effort for my former employer.

I was recently talking with Bryan Bedford of Republic Airlines when an Embraer rep named Mark something made a call on him. I took the opportunity to ask "Mark" about Airborne Common Sensor (ACS). He said that their current strategy was to convince Lockheed Martin to use the EMB 170. The EMB 145 was a laughable candidate for the spook aircraft - it couldn't fit three required operators or accommodate the mission equipment and if it could have would only have been able to climb to 24,000 feet. The G450 is ideally suited to the ACS mission and Gulfstream is aggressively marketing that platform to the Army.

GV

 

[LegacyDriver]

Next time you talk to Brian ask him why he can't spell. Give him my *warmest* regards (sarcasm off).



Does the 170 meet the mission criteria in its present configuration or is there a need to add a TON of gas to the plane? I honestly don't know what the mission requirements are in terms of range and endurance.

In fairness to EMB I think the equipment weighs more than originally predicted. There is nothing wrong with the EMB-145 as a whole.

 

[LegacyDriver]

most people i know would have zero desire to work at any airline


...too much like work----just kidding (not)

I couldn't agree more fido.

 

[fokkerjet]

Thanks, I now consult for the Big G. Most of the pilots in Gulfstream Flight Test are ex-military, principally because they don't know any better - work five days a week and one weekend a month for a buck and a quarter and a 3% percent per annum defined benefit pension plan - "Sure, you bet! Sounds like what I was doing in the military except for more pay." One of our customers offered me a position that was essentially, "Fly half as much, get paid twice as much." I deliberated for about a milisecond and took the job. I still have time to fly the occasional aircraft delivery, completion test flight, technical evaluation or assist in the sales effort for my former employer.

I was recently talking with Bryan Bedford of Republic Airlines when an Embraer rep named Mark something made a call on him. I took the opportunity to ask "Mark" about Airborne Common Sensor (ACS). He said that their current strategy was to convince Lockheed Martin to use the EMB 170. The EMB 145 was a laughable candidate for the spook aircraft - it couldn't fit three required operators or accommodate the mission equipment and if it could have would only have been able to climb to 24,000 feet. The G450 is ideally suited to the ACS mission and Gulfstream is aggressively marketing that platform to the Army.

GV

Congratulations GV, I hope you will be happy in your move, understand you will be flying the WSCoD

Current issue of Aviation Leak has an article on the ACS project; seems that LM really didn't have a clue about the EMB-145 when they chose that platform, now they are looking at both the B737 and G550; the other Embraer option is the E-190. Besides the added weight, seems that the EMB-145 can't generate enough electricty to power the equipment.

With regards to Embraer building the aircraft here in JAX (and for Airbus, for that matter with their A330 USAF tanker project) I guess the phrase "buy American" can mean a lot of different things; from buying from a US based company that produces products overseas and then reselling them back here, to locating a factory here from a foreign based company and then sending the profits back to their country. In either case, it just weakens our country in so many different ways

Case in point, if we decide to get some new rides, there are no US produced aircraft that will fill the role.......Boeing cancelled the B717 (the closest) leaving our choice to either Embraer, or Bombardier if they ever decide to go ahead with the C-series. No US manufacture (past or present) can compete with them because their costs are so low; not because they build a superior product.

 

[GVFlyer]

Congratulations GV, I hope you will be happy in your move, understand you will be flying the WSCoD

I couldn't get a Legacy, I had to settle for a G550.

Current issue of Aviation Leak has an article on the ACS project; seems that LM really didn't have a clue about the EMB-145 when they chose that platform, now they are looking at both the B737 and G550; the other Embraer option is the E-190. Besides the added weight, seems that the EMB-145 can't generate enough electricty to power the equipment.

With regards to Embraer building the aircraft here in JAX (and for Airbus, for that matter with their A330 USAF tanker project) I guess the phrase "buy American" can mean a lot of different things; from buying from a US based company that produces products overseas and then reselling them back here, to locating a factory here from a foreign based company and then sending the profits back to their country. In either case, it just weakens our country in so many different ways

I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks for the kind words and the informative post.

Case in point, if we decide to get some new rides, there are no US produced aircraft that will fill the role.......Boeing cancelled the B717 (the closest) leaving our choice to either Embraer, or Bombardier if they ever decide to go ahead with the C-series. No US manufacture (past or present) can compete with them because their costs are so low; not because they build a superior product.

The death of the B717 is sad. Lee Johnson after wrapping up his duties as GV chief test pilot went to be the chief test pilot for the B717 at Long Beach, so I got to know the airplane pretty well. I think it's a great jet and it's tough - made for 55,000 hours of short fields, hard landings and hard braking.

GV

 

[LegacyDriver]

How much power do they need? My gawd the plane has FIVE generators that can put out 400A apiece(!). Seems like a lot.
Also you are talking about a base airplane that is roughly 30000 lbs BOW. MTOW is over 50000 lbs on the XR I believe. How heavy is all this stuff?

 

[AA717driver]

Legacy--The package became a "Christmas Tree". Everyone started hanging stuff on it. It became heavier than originally intended.TC

 

[LegacyDriver]

Sounds like the old "Mission Creep Demon" strikes again, eh?

 

[mzaharis]

Some interesting quotes from the Aviation Week article:

"One of the top weight drivers is a miscalculation of the amount of cable needed to connect the onboard equipment." Also, "The Army and Lockheed Martin also underestimated the strength and weight of supports needed to house the ACS' electronic boxes." (Both quotes from the article). The article also said that it was not due to additional mission requirements.

Looks like they picked the ERJ-145 based on some "back of the envelope" calculations and had to seriously adjust when they started more detailed engineering.

 

[fokkerjet]

How much power do they need? My gawd the plane has FIVE generators that can put out 400A apiece(!). Seems like a lot.
Also you are talking about a base airplane that is roughly 30000 lbs BOW. MTOW is over 50000 lbs on the XR I believe. How heavy is all this stuff?

But wants the payload and floor loading limit or MZFW? Clear case of picking the lowest bidder then "screwing" the goverment with cost overruns; The cost of this project will go up 50% ($400M)when they change airframes if Congress doesn't kill the project first.

 

[LegacyDriver]

But like the man said, if the original predictions on cable and support structure weight had been "in the ballpark" the airplane would have been okay for the mission.

I agree it's a great waste of money, though. Woulda' been nice to be a civilian instructor on the airplane for the military, too. (Wishful thinking.)

 

[mzaharis]

But like the man said, if the original predictions on cable and support structure weight had been "in the ballpark" the airplane would have been okay for the mission.

It also didn't generate enough electrical power.

"Additionally, the power provided by the smaller Embraer is insufficient to handle the requirements of simultaneously operating onboard sensors, computers, and related equipment, according to the Pentagon source."

This is proving to be a challenge with a number of military aircraft, as ever more systems are being added. Onboard power demands are increasing, especially for an electronic surveillence aircraft.

 

[scarface]

GVFLYER,
You are one articulate, to the point silver tongued invidual. It is my totally unbiased opinion that the Marines and former Marines on this site are by far the most intelligent participants.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I am just amazed at the power requirements. 2000A DC is insufficient... Whew...