Evil S.O.B´s

[Sinca3]

Furloughed then this:
http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/060418/1274416.html?.v=1

 

[81Horse]

The very nexus of evil.

Hope they get laughed out of court on it.

 

[MarineGrunt]

It's true, there was a post, last week I think, where a Mesaba pilot was being charged for his training....

 

[G2T]

Here's some more, was in the Mpls paper today...

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/376572.html

 

[temcgrew]

Mesaba, a subsidiary of Minneapolis-based MAIR Holdings Inc. (Nasdaq: MAIR - News), has sent certified letters to those pilots stating they must repay Mesaba within 30 days or their training bills will be turned over to a collection agency.

That's not good news. If a collection agency gets ahold of it, they won't care about anything but ruining your life unless they get the money!!

 

[No Delay]

that is about the lowest thing I have ever heard.


I will have to put Mesaba management in the same group as child molestors...scum of the earth.

 

[IHateMgmt]

I stand by my name.

 

[737 Pylt]

That's not good news. If a collection agency gets ahold of it, they won't care about anything but ruining your life unless they get the money!!

YGTBFSM!
I would let it come to that....It is very expensive for it to be turned over to a collection agency! Then if they want it to get real ugly, tell them you can make a payment plan, of say, 10-20 dollars a month!
Unreal!
737

 

[finnjl]

sad day in aviation...pilots need to take a stand and just shut Mesaba down...There are plenty of pilot jobs out there with better pay

 

[wmudriver]

"management has informed them that it "reserves the right" to issue the letters to any pilot who was furloughed but had not completed one year of flying with Mesaba." -from the Star Tribune article.

Nice...even though we're furloughed THEN leave, they might try to stick it to us.

 

[JumpCaptain]

Yeah, and after you give them all your money they'll want your first born.

 

[thesource]

I haven't been on here for awhile but I just have to add to this thread.
First, I agree that this sucks. But how do you just gloss over the fact that these people were so excited to get the job that they sign a contract without considering the consequences of their actions. I wonder, would they have had to pay this back if they were furloughed first by the company?

Also the VP guy, why even bring this up? I'm guessing his contract didn't include a provision for him to pay back the signing bonus so it dosen't matter.

Back again to blaming everyone else but ourselves for our own actions.

 

[mesaba2425]

First, I agree that this sucks. But how do you just gloss over the fact that these people were so excited to get the job that they sign a contract without considering the consequences of their actions.

Back again to blaming everyone else but ourselves for our own actions.

Great post. You nailed it. If you don't want to be held to the stipulations in a contract, DO NOT SIGN IT!! It seems pretty simple to me.

 

[wmudriver]

But how do you just gloss over the fact that these people were so excited to get the job that they sign a contract without considering the consequences of their actions.

Back again to blaming everyone else but ourselves for our own actions.

Wow...how insightful.

I was one of "these people". I got furloughed and now they may want to stick that contract to me if I found another job. XJ isn't putting a roof over my head, food on the table or paying for my health care any more. So the "consequences of my actions" include me finding a another job to pay my bills and get off unemployment and they want to come after me...I'll tell them to bring it.

 

[thesource]

Hey, I think it's wrong. Please get the contract you signed out and tell me what it says about being furloughed as opposed to resigning within 1 year.

 

[JumpCaptain]

...I wonder, would they have had to pay this back if they were furloughed first by the company?

Good question. I would have to assume not, but either way I have to disagree with you. While I'm sure those pilots technically violated their contract, the company has no reason to enforce this other than to skrew these guys out of a few dollars. It's not like they need those pilots to come back.

Unfortunately, 10k isn't enough to really help Mesaba, but it's enough to really skrew an underpaid pilot.

It's just wrong.

 

[Hypoxik]

Ive never been a fan of "burning the house down" till now. This beats any other f**k'ed management pull

 

[WMUSIGPI]

They want to play that game, fine I would be happy to take a recall. Go through a long course (about 6 weeks probably) then IOE and ... oh look at that, my year is now up. I think I am going to go back to being an independant business owner. Have a nice day A-holes! :laugh:

If all 150 of us pull that let's see that's 150x$20000=$3 million in training costs + about 5 classes @ 30 per class so what at least 5 months of not having proper staffing (progressively getting worse) then double the costs and time to replace us with new hires. That would be a nice dream to pull off against these D-bags.

 

[thesource]

Again I think you are right, from a moral standpoint but as you say jumpcaptain, they may have "technically" breached the contract.

It's that technicality that may be tha cause of anyones pain.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I read the contract, it says that any employee resigning or being terminated for cause within one year, will be required to pay a pro-rated reimbursement. In addition if it is taken to court and ruled in favor of the company, the pilot will pay the company legal fee's in addition to their own and the reimbursment. Leaving before fulough might be a problem, however leaving after furlough should leave you free and clear.

 

[Beach Bum]

First, I agree that this sucks. But how do you just gloss over the fact that these people were so excited to get the job that they sign a contract without considering the consequences of their actions.

Back again to blaming everyone else but ourselves for our own actions.

About a year ago, NWA tells Mesaba they would be getting 15 new CRJs, with options on 20 more. Mesaba starts hiring pilots like crazy, 20-30 per month to prepare for the new aircraft.

Then, out of the blue, just a few months later, NWA decides to file bankruptcy in September, followed by Mesaba filing BK in October. (Which is a sham, because MAIR holdings is sitting on $120 million in cash - revenue earned by Mesaba.)

Then NWA announces that all the Avros are being eliminated and also some of the Saabs. Mesaba only got 2 of the promised CRJs, and now one of them is going to Compass.

How were the newly hired pilots supposed to know that just a couple months after being hired that the inept management would pull the planes they were hired to fly (plus much of the existing fleet)? When they were hired, Mesaba was told by NWA they would be growing with new aircraft being added to the fleet. Were they supposed to consult their crystal ball to predict the future? How could anyone possibly have been able to predict the crazy actions of both the NWA and Mesaba management?

 

[thesource]

Beach Bum, It's not about predicting the future. It's about taking responsability for your own actions. We're talking about pilots who were hired within the last year or two. They could not have missed the fact that the industry was and is totally messed up. They signed a contract and now some are complaining and think that they should just be issued a pass on their responsabilities. I'm telling you this is what is happening in this world, it's never my fault. Everything is someone elses fault.

Yourpilotfriend, I don't think being terminated for cause and furloughed are the same thing. If it's ambiguous it may have to be litigated in court. Does the contract speciffically address furlough?

 

[Dodge]

I agree with all that has been said. Should newhire pilots be paying attention to what they are signing? You bet. Is the management at Mesaba total ******************************s? Yep.

Note to all future potential applicants at Mesaba Airlines:

Be prepared to sign a training contract to work there. Be prepared to pay in full if they terminate you or you resign. Be prepared to work for some of the slimiest people in the industry. One should also be prepared to get furloughed in the first year of employment. That has been Mesaba's M.O. for the last 5 years. Hire, pay way low wages for professional pilots, furlough with the hope of getting the training cost back (more than they paid the pilot). Rinse and repeat. Be prepared to have the captain that was hired in 1996, spent 19 months as a FO and is XJ God on your last trip before unemployment tell you that "you gotta pay your dues".

I guess that is a lot to be prepared for.

 

[blueridge71]

Yeah, it depends on the contract language. I'm thinking that you guys are probably screwed. I'll bet it says something like "must complete one year of service." Definitely look at the exact wording.

Call your MEC status rep and see if they can negotiate something.

Here is a link to contacts for legal help organizations by state.
http://clarkhoward.com/shownotes/category/12/57/266/400/

 

[fam62c]

This is why you don't go to work for companies that require training contracts. If nobody would agree to take jobs at these places and sign these contracts they would have to get rid of them. If you sign it and are forced to comply with it who's fault is that ?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Beach Bum, It's not about predicting the future. It's about taking responsability for your own actions. We're talking about pilots who were hired within the last year or two. They could not have missed the fact that the industry was and is totally messed up. They signed a contract and now some are complaining and think that they should just be issued a pass on their responsabilities. I'm telling you this is what is happening in this world, it's never my fault. Everything is someone elses fault.

Yourpilotfriend, I don't think being terminated for cause and furloughed are the same thing. If it's ambiguous it may have to be litigated in court. Does the contract speciffically address furlough?

After reading it again, it appears that if you leave or resign within a year you are liable for the training cost. No where in the contract does it address furlough or not, so maybe if you resign your number anytime during furlough up to a year, you are required to pay. I guess you could go as far to say if the probationary employees are terminated as a result of this process, they are responsible to pay up.(forced to scab or pay big)

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Embarrassed to work for Mesaba Airlines

This is not a legal issue. Without reading the contract, I'd probably have to say that the pilots do owe the money back to Mesaba. BUT, like I said, this is not a legal issue. The issue here is the consciences of Mesaba Airlines upper management. This stunt, while probably legal, is not morally right. I don't think that point can be disputed. If you were an owner of your own company, would your conscience allow you to manipulate a fellow human being to such an extent? We are so morally challenged in this world. And we fail so miserably. This little ploy is a blaring example and is something for which our "management team" should be extremely embarrassed.

MM

 

[SplitBar]

A point needs to be clarified. A few posts have implied that all 150 furloughed pilots are being asked to repay training fees. This isn't the case. The way I understand it is that there are a handful of 1st year pilots who resigned before they were officially furloughed. It is only this handful of pilots who are being asked to honor the training contract, not all 150 furloughees. Either way it's BS, but just wanted to make it clear on who the company is going after.

 

[BoilerUP]

They want to play that game, fine I would be happy to take a recall. Go through a long course (about 6 weeks probably) then IOE and ... oh look at that, my year is now up. I think I am going to go back to being an independant business owner. Have a nice day A-holes! :laugh:

If all 150 of us pull that let's see that's 150x$20000=$3 million in training costs + about 5 classes @ 30 per class so what at least 5 months of not having proper staffing (progressively getting worse) then double the costs and time to replace us with new hires. That would be a nice dream to pull off against these D-bags.

Freakin' classic! Unfortunately, they'd probably try to sue claiming it was a "job action"

 

[blueridge71]

A point needs to be clarified. A few posts have implied that all 150 furloughed pilots are being asked to repay training fees. This isn't the case. The way I understand it is that there are a handful of 1st year pilots who resigned before they were officially furloughed. It is only this handful of pilots who are being asked to honor the training contract, not all 150 furloughees. Either way it's BS, but just wanted to make it clear on who the company is going after.

In that case, they'll probably have to pay up. It sucks because they were doing the honorable and ethical thing by resigning, but they probably would have been better off to call in sick until their furlough date.

Always read the fine print.