EU, U.S. agree tentative "open skies" deal

[Beetle007]

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/070302/airlines_eu_us_industry.html?.v=4


" The deal, if approved by EU transport ministers, would go into force in October. The world's top two trading partners have been working for years on a way to increase competition between EU and U.S. airlines"

Just what we need, more competition on an uneven playing field. Competition isn't fair when foreign countries have different labor laws and/or subsidize their airlines with government money.

 

[Dizel8]

I guess LHR will now have slots available for all the US carriers that want them and I suppose we will start charging ATC fees from foreign carriers as they do in EU.

 

[Bako Cap]

uke: I guess this would be a great solution to the U.S. pilot shortage.

"Welcome aboard United (or airline of your choice) Airlines, operated by Air France"

 

[huncowboy]

Would this mean green light to Virgin America? I am just wondering...

 

[Beetle007]

"The EU says a pact would generate 26 million additional transatlantic passengers over the next five years, provide up to 12 billion euros ($15.8 billion) in economic benefits, and create 80,000 new jobs in the EU and United States combined"

Are they predicting more passengers based purely on the lower ticket prices? Why would a passenger choose to fly that would otherwise not have flown?

 

[Guitar Guy]

"Welcome aboard United (or airline of your choice) Airlines, operated by Air France"

Isn't that already happening with the current codeshare agreements, like the Star Alliance, the OneWorld Alliance, etc.?

 

[Guitar Guy]

Are they predicting more passengers based purely on the lower ticket prices? Why would a passenger choose to fly that would otherwise not have flown?

Honestly, are you serious? Look at ticket prices in the U.S. and how packed the planes are.

 

[Beetle007]

Honestly, are you serious? Look at ticket prices in the U.S. and how packed the planes are.

That was my point. I didn't understand why the European Airlines were supporting more competition with the resulting lower ticket prices. Why would existing airlines (e.g., British Airways, Lufthansa, Air France KLM) want increased competition.

If I were in airline management, I would only want increased competition if I knew my costs were lower than my competitor. Or do these large airlines know that their alliances will allow them to crush any competition and aren't worried about a shorterm decrease in ticket price.

 

[General Lee]

This would allow any foreign carrier the right to fly from any European city to any American city, and vice versa. It would also loosen the tight restrictions on London Heathrow. But, you still have to get the gates and facilities, and the slots. The only slots available may be at 10pm. Same with American airports, which are already slot constrained and facility limited. If Lufthansa wants to start Paris to Little Rock service, go for it.

As far as Virgin America and Branson is concerned, he still can't own more than 25% of the voting rights of any American company.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

"The EU says a pact would generate 26 million additional transatlantic passengers over the next five years, provide up to 12 billion euros ($15.8 billion) in economic benefits, and create 80,000 new jobs in the EU and United States combined"

Are they predicting more passengers based purely on the lower ticket prices? Why would a passenger choose to fly that would otherwise not have flown?

Coming to the US is cheap for Europeans, since the Euro and Pound are so much higher than the dollar. That is why it is hard to find a cheap hotel in Manhattan, since Europeans think it is a bargain at $150 a night.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Europe's pilot shortage is worse than the US's.

The JAR (Euro FAA) has a committee studying raising the age limit to 70 and they have already announced that they are easing the requirements for licensing and education for commercial pilots because they just need more pilots.

Recent US develpments:
I know a guy who is over 60 and has NEVER APPLIED to Pinnacle, and he was just contacted for an interview.
Another flightinfo pilot was called by a regional on SATURDAY at 10PM to come in and interview.
The desparation phase is beginning.

cliff
YIP

PS-I can't fly today, because we are so short. I have no capt/fo until tommorrow.

 

[freightdogfred]

Coming to the US is cheap for Europeans, since the Euro and Pound are so much higher than the dollar. That is why it is hard to find a cheap hotel in Manhattan, since Europeans think it is a bargain at $150 a night.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Where d'ya find a decent hotel in Manhattan for 150$ a night? (sumthin good?)

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Where d'ya find a decent hotel in Manhattan for 150$ a night? (sumthin good?)

Duuuude, don't know what your saying but I dig the milf in your avatar...

 

[80for80]

This is potentially great news to pilots at UPS and FedEx.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If you want to know what the deal is......

Open Skies is not good for us....

http://cf.alpa.org/Internet/Meetings/BOD2006/SVindex.htm

Watch the video from VP Admin, globalization and pattern bargaining..

 

[Dizel8]

All one has to do, is look at how many airports in say the UK is served by US carriers and then look at how many US airports are served by UK carriers. Of course they want more access to the US market, it is by far the richest in the world.

There are few airports in the EU that US carriers wants to serve, highest on that list is LHR. Well, this deal does not allow better access to LHR, hence it should be a non starter.

US is the land of milk and honey, everyone, whether they like us or not, wants to visit, hence all the EU carriers wants to come here.

 

[nyboilermaker]

United Airlines boss says supports "open skies"...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070319/bs_nm/ual_openskies_britain_dc_1


Think Mesa's "Go" in Hawaii...EU pilots are paid much less than US pilots and when this flying starts up in the US, we're gonna be in trouble.

Think pay is lower now? Wait until management comes for more pay cuts showing you a BA Captains rate on a 747.



-NYB

 

[fxbat]

""Think pay is lower now? Wait until management comes for more pay cuts showing you a BA Captains rate on a 747.""

Well right now they make 127.660 or 242.554 usd
United 141.960
NW 144.432

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

If Lufthansa wants to start Paris to Little Rock service, go for it.

I agree....Paris could use some of that Little Rock culture enlightenment!

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

If you want to know what the deal is......

Open Skies is not good for us....

http://cf.alpa.org/Internet/Meetings/BOD2006/SVindex.htm

Watch the video from VP Admin, globalization and pattern bargaining..

Well the open ground in China seems to be working quite nicely thank you. I hear what you're saying but the same thing that has happened to the American worker will probably happen to the Yankee pilot. I still think capitalism is great as long as there are honorable men you're dealing with. Problem is the number of honorable men are rapidly dwindling.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Problem is the number of honorable men are rapidly dwindling.

Why "rapididly dwindling"

I suggest there was always a small number of honorable men......

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Duuuude, don't know what your saying but I dig the milf in your avatar...

...is she a Milf or a Gilf?

Either way....nice to look at

 

[AA717driver]

EasyJet and Ryannair CA's are paid more than the Legacy NB CA's. I can't say what Thompsonfly, Monarch, BMI, etc. are paid. TC

 

[Freight Dog]

TC, the difference is that Ryanair pilots have to pay for their health care and their recurrent training out of their own pocket, which means you gotta save up for it over the year.

Ahhh Rez... this is where ALPA begins with establishing Pink Ribbon Panel and start working on implementation of the Open Skies agreement. It would be consistent with ALPA national policies.

 

[Groucho]

I haven't seen the proposal, but one of the prior proposals included the right of EU countries to buy and brand other carriers in non EU countries.

This is the real red herring. Just go set up a certificate in the Dominican Republic, Hatii, Mozambique, or anywhere. This certificate would be branded and owned by BA or Lufthansa or Air France, but based in a third world country. Just like a liberian freighter or Panamanian cruise ship.

No regulations to speak of and access to US markets.

This is whre the real danger lies.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I haven't seen the proposal, but one of the prior proposals included the right of EU countries to buy and brand other carriers in non EU countries.

This is the real red herring. Just go set up a certificate in the Dominican Republic, Hatii, Mozambique, or anywhere. This certificate would be branded and owned by BA or Lufthansa or Air France, but based in a third world country. Just like a liberian freighter or Panamanian cruise ship.

No regulations to speak of and access to US markets.

This is whre the real danger lies.

Nonsense! The FAA runs aviation in the US and would never bow to pressure from our dear friends and allys in Europe.

...other than Age 65, of course...which is rational, wise, and only being considered because ICAO only wants what's best for Americans.