ETOPS fuel req. ???

boknowsASA

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Just wondering if someone who has flown to Hawaii could explain the requirements for fuel on an ETOPS flight... It was my understanding that you had to have enough fuel to make a descent to 10,000 feet at the half way point, continue at 10,000 feet to your ALT and than 15min... is that correct?
 

BoilerUP

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I think you are confusing ETOPS requirements (which are for OEI diversions) with wet footprint and ETP calculations.

Then again, I know jack about Hawaii operations, so maybe I'm the one confused :D
 
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boknowsASA

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I think you are confusing ETOPS requirements (which are for OEI diversions) with wet footprint and ETP calculations.

Then again, I know jack about Hawaii operations, so maybe I'm the one confused :D

Maybe I am confused..LOL Wouldn't be the first time...

Maybe I should ask the question in a different way.

When you go to Hawaii and are operating as an ETOPS flight what are your fuel requirements?

Great if an Alaska pilot could chime in.. With the 737-8 that you take to Hawaii it has a range of 3,000-3,300Nm and being that Hawaii is 2,100NM(ish) away from the west coast, How much fuel does Alaska take to Hawaii are you about 80-90% full tanks?
 
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HalinTexas

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Critical Fuel Scenario (CFS) is as you described, pretty much, but "half-way point" is really called Equal Time Point. It's based on loss of pressurization at (or near) ETP.

From the ATA 737 Nav manual:

As above plus flying at 10000 at ECON.

Approach the ETOPS alternate (almost always ILO for HI) at 1500', hold for 15 minutes, initiate an approach, go miss, execute a second approach, then land.

Now there's more. Various "bias" are added.

1. 5% bias for possible wind forecast errors.
2. 5% bias for anti-ice bleed use. (forecast icing, not very often going to HI)
3. 5% bias for ice accretion on unheated surfaces.
ATA and others have or can get relief from icing penalties Ops Spec B050, for CEPAC ops.

So, if you take the CEPAC relief you only have to add 10% bias to the CFS fuel scenario.

When I flew to HI with ATA on the B737, the arrival fuel using the above bias, could result in landing at your alternate with 1000 lbs. of fuel or less!
 

HalinTexas

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ATA would just about top off the fuel going west. We'd frequently take off from ONT or LAX within 100 lbs. of MGTOW.

I'd like to know what payloads AK is taking particularly out of LIH.
 

boknowsASA

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Thanks HalinTexas thats good info..

Any Alaska pilots want to chime in?
 

turbodriver

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We (AS) usually top off the tanks to/from Hawaii. I don't feel like digging out my now out of date FOM regarding fuel req's since I got canned, but let's put it this way, in the honored longtime Alaska spirit, we're always leaving something behind.....
 
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