Enough Is Enough!!

[Jetpipeovht]

The only way for us to have leverage over all this chaos among us is to UNITE ALL ALPA pilots and just walk off the job saying ENOUGH is ENOUGH.

What most of us fail to see that in a population of 295,000,000 people only 639,000 of us are licensed pilots and that is including recreational to ATP. We have this country by the balls if we just walk off the job on any given day.

Then they will listen, then we will get what we deserve. Right now our union is spineless and compared to other unions we are a joke. If Opec can sit in a conference room discussing wether they will cut production of oil and raise the price to 75.00 a barrel, why can't airlines do the same with fares? Oil goes up fares go up. All airlines sitting in a conference room discussing wether they should raise fares by 20.00 bucks across the board! People will pay it!

We just sit here lowballing one another so joe schmoe can travel for 29 bucks!! We all just keep bending over takin it in the @ss while the CEO's and executives fund their bonuses and golden parachutes with our jobs, wages and pensions. When is this "all about me mentality" end? When we have nothing? I am ashamed to be a part of a union full of corrupt spineless cowards and I am sure that I am not the only one that feels this way.

If something like this were to happen, Air Tran, SWA, Jet Blue would not even have the time nor the resources to pick up the slack. Internationally we would be shut down since none of the traditional low cost carriers even fly across the ponds.

UNITE AND STOP THIS MADNESS ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!

ABOLISH ALPA AND PUT DWAYNE IN PRISON!! LET'S CLEAN HOUSE AND TAKE WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS!!

 

[Going2Baja]

If I were in a position to do it i would but my airline wants to slice of half and make another red headed stepchild. Didn't Song just fail? Can't imagine Ted is doing much better. Previously anything with the name "shuttle" didn't last all that long. The majors need to listen to Jetpipe!!!

 

[mar]

The British are coming!

The only way for us to have leverage over all this chaos among us is to UNITE ALL ALPA pilots and just walk off the job saying ENOUGH is ENOUGH.

Right.

Just like when PATCO walked off their jobs? You know, where would they find more controllers...?

And then they all got fired.

If you think Pres. Bush would allow such nonsense for more than one minute you be smokin' sumptin funny.

Good luck. I hope everything works out for you.

 

[Jetpipeovht]

Right.

Just like when PATCO walked off their jobs? You know, where would they find more controllers...?

And then they all got fired.

If you think Pres. Bush would allow such nonsense for more than one minute you be smokin' sumptin funny.

Good luck. I hope everything works out for you.

You tend to forget that PATCO jeopardized the safety of air travel. We would not jeopardize that at all since the planes wouldn't be flyin. Even if there were enough to replace us it would take months to train and get flyin. Our country would shut down and the only one flyin would be Bush and AF-1 with his head in his @ss.

 

[banger]

why can't airlines do the same with fares? Oil goes up fares go up. All airlines sitting in a conference room discussing wether they should raise fares by 20.00 bucks across the board! !!

Maybe because it is against U.S. law.

 

[GoingHot]

The only way for us to have leverage over all this chaos among us is to UNITE ALL ALPA pilots and just walk off the job saying ENOUGH is ENOUGH.

More Sh!t Talking. Do you feel better now?

 

[mar]

The end result

You tend to forget that PATCO jeopardized the safety of air travel.

Jeopardized air safety?

But Reagan fired them anyway....

Sorry man, I ain't throwin' away my job for a lost cause.

The problems in the industry are really more complicated than rich kids with SJS.

Good luck.

 

[AA717driver]

The ALPA pilots have spoken. They won't do a thing to improve their situation if it will jeapordize their jobs. ALPA is finished.TC

 

[SWA/FO]

:beer: SWAPA!! We need SWAPA

 

[US Flyer]

Did the math

I used the numbers posted above- that means that pilots account for less than 1% of the US population. He has a good point.

There are so many "factions" in the industry that have their own agenda -airline mgmt., the unions, lobbyists, etc. Not much unity, even with ALPA. They have not accomplished anything at our carrier in four years of negotiations. (Except take dues out of my check each month).

Wihout some change, this divide and conquer mentality will prevail. I personally don't want to see my regional carrier grow at the expense of the mainline. (Just so I can fly a 90-120 seat for minimum wage). I'll fly anything with wings for better wages- I don't care what it looks like.

The "Shiny Jet Syndrome" that our mgmt. is always taunting us with is only attractive when you are a probationary new hire. Where does it stop? A CRJ 900, CRJ 1500, CRJ 2000. Before long they'll have a 300 seat version that they want us to fly for $14/hr. It would be much better to see the mainline carriers pull their collective heads out of their a@#, raise rates, stop the downsizing and furloughing.

When I started flying ten years ago, the "dream" was not to be making 20-30K a year for the rest of my career, but a decent living wage that I can survive on. I will never encourage my children to pursue this job unless their is huge change in the near future. If I have to stay where I am any longer I may as well start a lawn care business and make 2-3 times the money with less stress.

Price fixing is illegal, yes. But what would be so hard to just have an industry conference where there is some agreement to have ticket costs reflect actual expenses.

When the price of gas goes up at the local Chevron station- you don't see the service station manager tell all of the employees that they are getting wage cuts. He sends a junior employee out with a ladder and they raise rates in less than the time it took for you to read this post.

 

[Vingus]

Yea,

It would be nice if all CEOs got together and decided to raise fairs by 50 bucks a ticket.....

The reason the towel-heads do it is because they CAN...they are Arabs, not Americans. They live in a place called the Middle East...not the USA.

If you ever took high-school economics, you would realize that a CEO pow-wow is called an oligopoly...and it is illegal in the USA.

I'm not saying that it never goes on here, but apparently in our industry the fear of being caught, told on, or being undercut and told on by a competitor is too strong.

Oh well, try again.

 

[Jetpipeovht]

Yea,

It would be nice if all CEOs got together and decided to raise fairs by 50 bucks a ticket.....

The reason the towel-heads do it is because they CAN...they are Arabs, not Americans. They live in a place called the Middle East...not the USA.

If you ever took high-school economics, you would realize that a CEO pow-wow is called an oligopoly...and it is illegal in the USA.

I'm not saying that it never goes on here, but apparently in our industry the fear of being caught, told on, or being undercut and told on by a competitor is too strong.

Oh well, try again.

TOO STRONG IS BULLSH*T. IT'S BECAUSE WE ARE TOO WEAK. IF WE WALK WE CAN FINALLY MAKE THEM LISTEN AND THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WILL FINALLY KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. LIKE I SAID BEFORE WE NEED TO UNITE!!!

OK if we can't do it that way then we overhaul ALPA. How about putting our union and it's members to the test. ONE UNION, ONE CONTRACT. For all pilots to get together and draw up one contract with work rules, qol issues, vacation, benefits etc...FOR ALL AIRLINE PILOTS. Set the pay scale for equipment flown. You operate a CL-65, the wage set for that aircraft and so forth. The council can be a representative elected from each airline when they negotiate the contract. The other issue, Seniority. The way to blend the seniority among all of us in a fair manner is to base your date on the issuance of your commercial pilot certificate for everyone. That seniority follows you wherever you go so no more takin cuts unless you go from a larger type to a smaller type because the rates for equipment are set. There will be no more bickering among ourselves and FIGHTING EACH OTHER WHEN COMPANIES MERGE. No more it's better here than there. Everyone will have the same set of rules across the board and if we strike for any reason we are alot more potent unified than broken up like we are now. Our ALPA leadership must step down and step aside to a new, more potent and effective leadership.

 

[Lampshade]

For that you need a UNION not a association, as in Airline Pilots Association (ALPA)

 

[GogglesPisano]

Yea,

It would be nice if all CEOs got together and decided to raise fairs by 50 bucks a ticket.....
.

Thatwould be nice. Illegal, too.

 

[maru657]

A little history;
At one time, ALPA was strong enough to shut the country down. This partially realized threat occured during the hijacking crises of the 60's.
However as a friend, one of the origanal members of ALPA once said "We worked for years and years to get the wages and working conditions of the American pilot above that of the Itinerant farm worker and then they failed the IQ test and started thinking they were republicans". When pilots crossed the PATCO picket lines during the 80's, that was the end of organized labor in aviation. This was further demonstrated at Continental, Eastern and United.
It's now a race to the bottom and I suspect that there will be no relief untill we actually hit bottom. Untill then, enjoy the ride.

 

[Mach 80]

-----------
The only way for us to have leverage over all this chaos among us is to UNITE ALL ALPA pilots and just walk off the job saying ENOUGH is ENOUGH.
------------

I always like it when someone thinks ALL airline pilots are in ALPA.

You better include the SWA, JetBlue, and other pilot groups if you are serious. Otherwise, a very nice windfall for them in picking up the slack.

 

[theo]

Price fixing is illegal, yes. But what would be so hard to just have an industry conference where there is some agreement to have ticket costs reflect actual expenses.

When the price of gas goes up at the local Chevron station- you don't see the service station manager tell all of the employees that they are getting wage cuts. He sends a junior employee out with a ladder and they raise rates in less than the time it took for you to read this post.

Well your right it is illegal...but the real problem for the legacy carriers is the market is already reflecting actual expenses. That is why the LCC's continue to trounce the legacy carriers. If you priced your product at the Legacy carrier to match your cost you would be at a severe price disadvantage to the LCC and you would not carry sufficient passengers to make a PROFIT, that is still the problem! You have to find a way to match their cost if you plan on surviving....any other solution is just P....ssng in the wind. Sad for many people but none the less, still true.

 

[amcnd]

Eagle used the "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" logo back in 2002 and it did nothing for us!!!!!! good luck!!

 

[Jetpipeovht]

-----------
The only way for us to have leverage over all this chaos among us is to UNITE ALL ALPA pilots and just walk off the job saying ENOUGH is ENOUGH.
------------

I always like it when someone thinks ALL airline pilots are in ALPA.

You better include the SWA, JetBlue, and other pilot groups if you are serious. Otherwise, a very nice windfall for them in picking up the slack.

I know all pilots are not in ALPA but ALPA is the largest.

 

[Jetpipeovht]

Eagle used the "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" logo back in 2002 and it did nothing for us!!!!!! good luck!!

It did nothing because it was only you with your pants down and @ss in the wind and not every airline under ALPA. I am telling all of you that it would not be that way if EVERYONE WALKS!! We are weak and fragmented and all of the CEO's know this, that is why they can do what they are doing. Can anyone else see this? Is everyone so blind to this. ALPA needs an overhaul, IT'S YOUR MONEY paying those dues and still no one does anything.

 

[mar]

I'll give you this much.

ALPA needs an overhaul, IT'S YOUR MONEY paying those dues and still no one does anything.

For years I watched ALPA from the outside and thought, "That's weak."

But for the last year and a half I've been watching ALPA from the inside and I just won't say what I'm thinking but it ain't good.

Jetpipe--You're crazy if you think an industry-wide walkout would help our collective situation.

As I said before, the President (Bush not Woerth), just wouldn't allow it to happen. Or more to the point, it happens and then everyone is fired.

How does that help pilots negotiate a better deal?

 

[Jetpipeovht]

For years I watched ALPA from the outside and thought, "That's weak."

But for the last year and a half I've been watching ALPA from the inside and I just won't say what I'm thinking but it ain't good.

Jetpipe--You're crazy if you think an industry-wide walkout would help our collective situation.

As I said before, the President (Bush not Woerth), just wouldn't allow it to happen. Or more to the point, it happens and then everyone is fired.

How does that help pilots negotiate a better deal?

What are we doing now to get a better deal? That is the only way that they will STOP and LISTEN, IMO. Otherwise CEO's and executives will continue to fill their bank accounts with our pensions and wages. They will continue to exploit our labor contracts and make us work for less and less. Is that a job worth keeping when you can qualify for food stamps when you are away from your family flying a multi-million aircraft with lives to be responsible for? Is that what being a pilot has come down to? being at the mercy of thieves? We need to do something and do something fast before foreign airlines can feed themselves in our own soil or outsource our jobs to third world countries. We are on the fast track to this outcome because our lack of unity and leadership will just sit back and let it happen.

My .02 cents. It's all I got.

 

[whymeworry?]

The ALPA pilots have spoken. They won't do a thing to improve their situation if it will jeapordize their jobs. ALPA is finished.TC

I agree, but I think it's more a factor of leadership at ALPA... or lack thereof. Duane Worthless is finished. I have yet to meet an ALPA member who believes in the leadership at National. All politics is local so those of us who are whining really have our own MECs and LECs to blame. Heck, at NW quite a number of pilots didn't even bother to vote on a career altering contract. So some can't even blame their LEC, they can only blame themselves.

The real problem with the loss of backbone at ALPA rests with the direction we get from ALPA National. Duane Worthless has been like a deer-in-the-headlights over the past 4 years. He's not only diection-less... he's fallen asleep at the yoke. Had he taken a true leadership role and stood up to Wall Street and Washington, perhaps we might have been able to hold the line.

Oh, wait... he did FINALLY organize some sort of labor rally in DC on the 8th. Sorry, Duane, you're just a little too late. Like, ummm 4 years too late.

I do venture to say however, I don't see much of an alternative to ALPA.

 

[CRJDog]

Although I am not a fan of what is going on in our industry, jet-pipe does have some valid points.

 

[maru657]

Well as a simple solution, you could go to the polls in 06 and vote out all of the anti-labor politicians, but I don't see that happening. I figure it's kind of like the Lemming theory. Nobody gets a clue untill your lying on the rocks a wondering what went wrong.

 

[JD2003]

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The only way for us to have leverage over all this chaos among us is to UNITE ALL ALPA pilots and just walk off the job saying ENOUGH is ENOUGH.
------------

I always like it when someone thinks ALL airline pilots are in ALPA.

You better include the SWA, JetBlue, and other pilot groups if you are serious. Otherwise, a very nice windfall for them in picking up the slack.

Southwest is ALPA Mach 80...and the rampers and agents are IAM...the mechanics are teamsters however.

 

[JD2003]

I nominate Jetpipe for ALPA president!!

DW can kiss Jetpipe's enlightened ass and anybody who doesn't agree with jetpipe is a coward and traitor to us all just like Duane Woerth who is lining his pocket "executive style" on our collective dime.

Jetpipe speaks the truth.

I will never vote Republican again.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Howard Johnson is right!!!!!!!

 

[flx757]

Southwest is ALPA Mach 80...and the rampers and agents are IAM...the mechanics are teamsters however.

Southwest is NOT ALPA, JD2003. They have their own in-house, SWAPA. So, it's hard to take your rant seriously when you are correcting others with your own misinformation.

 

[freightdogfred]

I agree, but I think it's more a factor of leadership at ALPA... or lack thereof. Duane Worthless is finished. I have yet to meet an ALPA member who believes in the leadership at National. All politics is local so those of us who are whining really have our own MECs and LECs to blame. Heck, at NW quite a number of pilots didn't even bother to vote on a career altering contract. So some can't even blame their LEC, they can only blame themselves.

The real problem with the loss of backbone at ALPA rests with the direction we get from ALPA National. Duane Worthless has been like a deer-in-the-headlights over the past 4 years. He's not only diection-less... he's fallen asleep at the yoke. Had he taken a true leadership role and stood up to Wall Street and Washington, perhaps we might have been able to hold the line.

Oh, wait... he did FINALLY organize some sort of labor rally in DC on the 8th. Sorry, Duane, you're just a little too late. Like, ummm 4 years too late.

I do venture to say however, I don't see much of an alternative to ALPA.

Well said, every word the gospel truth. I'll put the old lady to work in a whorehouse before I give another nickel to ALPA, with dandy Duane at the tiller. I'm waiting for "Flying the line, part III- Woerth sinks the good ship ALPA"