Embry-Riddle AU v. Mesa Pilot Development

[sorenk]

ERAU Captain Program v. Mesa 2 year degree -- which is better for a zero hour pilot ready to commit, with limited time to train and plenty of (borrowed) cash? Already with a BA, and 37 years old. Thanks for input.

 

[Goose Egg]

Let the flames begin.

-Goose

 

[lovetba6]

I really do not know anything about the Mesa Program, but the Capt program is not that bad. You only fly diamonds and piper seminoles... if you are not familiar with the diamond... it looks like a sperm with wings. Capt holds all of their students to really high standards on all test and written exams including the FAA exam. You need to have a 90 or better. It all depends on what you want to do.... if you have any more ?s PM me.


Good luck

 

[jn_pilot]

Look into Westwind

 

[BoilerUP]

MAPD is a far superior program to Riddle CAPT. Its cheaper, might get you a job sooner, and doesn't saddle you with the cost of a useless type rating you dont need nor can use.

 

[d_van_nostrand]

I am going to atttend Mesa PACE program. I am 38, have my B.S., and almost to my commercial with 250TT, the mins for entering. I have done extensive research on them, and for me and my $$$, it's the way to go. I have recieved valuable information and opinions from 350 driver and several others in the Hangar, so if you want more info, find my posting awhile back (titled : Mesa PACE program....any info), feel free to pm me, I'll tell you what they told me.

Dave

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

PACE yourself, man
dont let the bloated goat take another dollar from the masses

 

[sorenk]

Another controversy???, I recently read in "Professional Pilot Career Guide" that if you go to a pft type school then the MAJORS will blackball you because they are so anti pft (pay for training). Regionals are fine with it, their the ones that implimented it to start with. Low hours, low pay. So Im having sencond thoughts about that whole route...MESA, Emory Capt. , FlightSafety-Airline Prog, thinking of flying dangerous cargo to get pic twin up after ratings. thoughtful COMMENTS/research/experience WELCOMED.

 

[cfrey79]

Sorry, but that part about the Majors blackballing a PFT applicant is crap. I'm sure that in some rare cases, PFT has prevented an applicant from getting past an interview, but I know at least a few people that have PFT in the past (previous ASA, COMAIR, and GULFSTREAM pilots) and are now flying for majors. Good luck!

 

[Cardenal]

From what I know, I'd go with the CAPT program. The results are, so far, impressive. The persons I know there like it. Also, someone mentioned high academic standards--this is true, AND people actually get prescreened for admission with the same tests used by the airlines. They reject a good percentage of the applicants--that doesn't make business sense, but they do. And, the point of a "useless" type rating is faulty...what people are doing is demonstrating Type Rating level proficiency in glass cockpit transport category jet aircraft thereby a) learning another glass cockpit airliner (CRJ/ERJ) much easier and b) the airlines know they have a proven element in graduates. People are finding employment quickly and at excellent places like ASA.

my .02

 

[CapnVegetto]

It depends on where you go, and who interviews you. You might catch an anti-PFT interviewer and then you're screwed. Or you might not.....it's a crap shoot just like PFT is. You pay for Mesa's program, then something happens....(United folds, etc.) suddenly they're not hiring anymore. You're out $35 or $40K, on the street with 250 hours, no CFI, and not qualified to do ANYTHING. You can't get a job at 250 hours anywhere else. So you're left with 3 choices: 1. Shell out another $10 grand and instruct to get a job the real way, (which is what you were trying to avoid to begin with, 2. Fly skydivers for little or no money, IF you can even find a gig doing it, (most require about 500 hours), which again, was something you were trying to pay to avoid, or 3. Shell out more money for some PFT 'first officer' program somewhere else, and be out even more dough and respect than you are already.

Let's just forget a second about the buying-a-job prospects, how disrespected it is in the industry, and how much you will be looked down upon for trying to circumvent paying your dues. Think about the financial and career aspects. If you shell out a bunch of money for some PFT program, then you're putting ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET. If something goes wrong, they stop hiring, you don't make it through, the preferential interview deal falls through, whatever, you're FU-KED. You now have 250 hours, an ink-still-wet commercial ticket, and NO JOB PROSPECTS. Now take Mr. CFI that instructed for 1200 hours, then got a freight job, built up a bit of multi, and got an ATP, put him in the same situation, and LOOK AT ALL THE OPTIONS HE HAS. So what if the airline doesn't hire him? He's got the qualifications to fly freight, get hired at another airline, or even go back to instructing at a worse case scenario. BUT, he's got options. Mr 250 hours and PFT has NONE, except shelling out even more money and basically starting over. I know about this first hand, because I had a friend that went to TAB. Sons of bi-ches took him out of about $60K, and never gave him a dam- thing that was promised. I begged and pleaded with him to come live with me, for free, I'd instruct him for free, he just had to pay for the plane, but noooooo Tab was promising this and that, putting nice ads in Flying, AOPA, and Flight Training, and he bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Don't be sucked into the PFT nightmare. It's a crock of $hit. You'll be madly disrespected, (and rightfully so), by the rest of us that paid our dues and worked our way up. Plus, it's going to end up costing you a LOT more money than it should.

 

[mar2003]

Be Careful of PFT deals. Simcenter.cc is offering guaranteed right seat time flying cargo in a 727 for $30,000. I had a friend who did the program and was hired (at the time it was only $20,000). Worked out great other than he was never home. He told me that the company is now going out of biz and anyone who pays the $30,000 may not get any time in the 727. The new program also requires you to be a flight engineer first before getting the chance to fly.

Save yourself some money and buy your own airplane 152,172, Warrior etc. and find a good CFI who is willing to fly with you regularly to get you though your CFII and MEI. Build some time and look for a job or teach in the airplane you already bought. In the end all the training will cost you about half of what a flight school would charge you and if you decide you want to do something else you can still sell the airplane. I have known too many people who put all their eggs in one basket and came up short. If you still want a PFT deal when you are done you can still do so having all your ratings.

 

[merikeyegro]

Where are the "impressive" results from CAPT? ERAU board of trustees hired a firm to look into why CAPT isn't doing as well as they had hoped. The results, from what I heard, were not exactly what the university wanted to hear. They've only graduated like 8 cadets since inception (2 years ago), of which maybe 4 have jobs flying at a place like ASA, etc.

The program has underperformed, and the university is considering its options. The advertising has a history of deception (all CFIs Gold Seal/NAFI Master CFI, over 1200 hours dual, etc. - I know the instructors personally and this is not true for most and, at the time of the advertisements, was 100% untrue. Not a single one had these quals). A former student used to have the "CAPT is Crap" website up. I think a court settlement caused him to give it up, but his info was from students and employees and was verifiable. Not good, really.

I'm sure the instruction is fine, but the program was cobbled together in a very unorganized and rushed fashion, people have gone over their allotted time by months, and there is a revolving door of employees up there. They keep trying to recruit instructors from the DB campus to head up there to teach but the local union has basically shunned it (they're paid much better than we are for arguably less-valuable work, and are paid in a way that we tried to negotiate in 2002), so they are having a tough time finding people with their required quals to move to FL to teach in the program.

Head somewhere else. ERAU is concentrating its efforts on upgrading its customer service on the DB campus (Flt Dept chair, Chief CFI, Asst Chief for Academics just got canned), with the books being burned and rewritten (see Continental, c. 1995) in the next two months. I don't think that a lot of effort will be spent really improving a satellite operation.

Just my two cents.

 

[check6]

Hmmmm. . . . I smell a scab. Yeah. . . some people don 't like other people who buy a seat. It makes their hard work look worthless. I'm working in the trenches now, but someday it WILL pay off. Regardless, good luck.

 

[sorenk]

After much consideration I'm going to my local FBO to get my ratings. So this thread is a bit irrelevant for me. But thanks for all the imput--it helped me to make my decision.

 

[Cardenal]

Hmmmm.

Your facts, I think, are out of date. They got 5 or 6 at ASA, with several more interviewed or interviewing, 4 or 5 at piedmont (I think), 4 or 5 at Focus, and several more developing contacts with other carriers. They have a few visits from interested airlines in the next few days. The ex-student that had the website was a disgruntled person that couldn't perform up to standards.

I think they will do just fine. The proof is in the pudding--the airlines like the product.

On the other hand, you are right, from what I hear, that there were growing pains , especially in terms of the details.

regards,

Cardenal

Where are the "impressive" results from CAPT? ERAU board of trustees hired a firm to look into why CAPT isn't doing as well as they had hoped. The results, from what I heard, were not exactly what the university wanted to hear. They've only graduated like 8 cadets since inception (2 years ago), of which maybe 4 have jobs flying at a place like ASA, etc.

The program has underperformed, and the university is considering its options. The advertising has a history of deception (all CFIs Gold Seal/NAFI Master CFI, over 1200 hours dual, etc. - I know the instructors personally and this is not true for most and, at the time of the advertisements, was 100% untrue. Not a single one had these quals). A former student used to have the "CAPT is Crap" website up. I think a court settlement caused him to give it up, but his info was from students and employees and was verifiable. Not good, really.

I'm sure the instruction is fine, but the program was cobbled together in a very unorganized and rushed fashion, people have gone over their allotted time by months, and there is a revolving door of employees up there. They keep trying to recruit instructors from the DB campus to head up there to teach but the local union has basically shunned it (they're paid much better than we are for arguably less-valuable work, and are paid in a way that we tried to negotiate in 2002), so they are having a tough time finding people with their required quals to move to FL to teach in the program.

Head somewhere else. ERAU is concentrating its efforts on upgrading its customer service on the DB campus (Flt Dept chair, Chief CFI, Asst Chief for Academics just got canned), with the books being burned and rewritten (see Continental, c. 1995) in the next two months. I don't think that a lot of effort will be spent really improving a satellite operation.

Just my two cents.