Electronic flight bags

[girlsandbeer]

Hey folks Im looking to pick up an EFB set up for our company (1 airplane operation)... anyone have suggestions on where to look for the equipment and what brands are best? Any info is appreciated... thanks!

 

[Flyerjosh]

I too am in the same process... Don't know what your budget is (ours is about 30K plus installation), but so far out of all the products we've tried we like the EFBs from "Paperless Cockpit" the most.

We're looking at installing the Fliteserve C3 EFB with a wireless connection and interlinked to XM weather and datalink.

www.paperlesscockpit.com

 

[girlsandbeer]

Ya, 30k is probably out of our price range, we were kinda interested in just finding a very small laptop that has a reversable screen that might work as well. Anyone have experience with trying to do this? I know there are a lot of palm pilot type devices that already do the basics of this but wed like to stick to a tablet pc or EFB specific type set up.

 

[Headwind]

I was looking at anywhere map. Check out anywheremap.com. You can get all charts, moving map, and weather for appr. four grand. This is one EFB and you can print paper charts and use your lap top for a back up.
If anyone is now using this systen please let us know your feelings.

 

[prpjt]

For a unit with an integrated keyboard we use this one from Toshiba. The dimming sucks, the daylight visibility is marginal at best and it's too big as an EFB. http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?seg=HHO&coid=-26373

This one is better suited for EFB use and has good daylight visability. The size is good. It doesn't exaclty play well with Jeppview right out of the box. A good overall unit. http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_ls.asp

We use a program other than Jepp and it has worked fine with it.

Edit: This is just personal opinion, but for single pilot ops I found that any Class I unit is just too distracting. I tried for a while but went to always printing out charts. In our crew operation the EFB works great but I never reached a comfort zone with it when flying a single pilot plane.

 

[thatpilotguy]

We are using the HP TC-4200 tablet PC. We really like it. It doubles as our work PC's as well. We ordered the ultra bright screen option. It works really well. A couple of things that we ran into during set up was changing the "standby" options so that the lap top would not go into a standby mode when we had it up and running. We are also using a long life standby battery in stead of cockpit power. Our aircraft will be approved of IFS sometime late this year and we didn't want to spend all the money to put power up front and then spend more money to get the IFS installed. The standby battery last for 10 hours. More than enough time if you ask me.

I have also used the Flight Deck Resources HB770 http://www.flightdeckresources.com/products/skytab_770HB.asp

It's a great option if you don't have a lot of cockpit space. It's small and is a very simple set up. I think they are going for around $6,000. Not too bad of a price when you are talking going paperless. They also have refurbished units available at reduced prices.

If you have any questions, PM me. Hope this helps.

 

[Diesel]

I called flight deck resources and picked up two used units for like 1500 bucks each. They were demo's and kind of worn but I really didn't care.

I've got it hooked up with bluetooth and an xm reciever in the cockpit.

I'm about to switch over to wxworx as a weather provider since anywheremap is too Cessna 172.

 

[Rick1128]

We use the Fajitsu from ADR nad have been happy with it. It will also do other computing. We have the FG4000, however the FG7000 has better viewing and brightness capabilities. Updates are a snap, plug in the internet and update.

 

[SabreFlyR]

We use the Fajitsu from ADR nad have been happy with it. It will also do other computing. We have the FG4000, however the FG7000 has better viewing and brightness capabilities. Updates are a snap, plug in the internet and update.

Same here we have the 4000 and the 7000, both good units, I prefer the 7000 though I find the screen easier to see in bright sunlight.

 

[Diesel]

An interesting note. The reason I went with FDR is because at the time they were the only one installing touch screens that was able to use without the use of a special pen.

I flew a bunch of trips that had one that had to use a special pen to select everything. It drove me friggin nuts i kept losing the damn pen. You couldn't use your finger to select anything. It drove me friggin nuts.

Get one with a touch screen not a special pen you'll end up needing that damn pen on a low approach.

 

[patq1]

This one is better suited for EFB use and has good daylight visability. The size is good. It doesn't exaclty play well with Jeppview right out of the box. A good overall unit. http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_ls.asp

We use a program other than Jepp and it has worked fine with it.

I have been looking at the LS800 with the view anywhere screen for our Falcon. I really like that unit. What is the issue with JeppView/FlightDeck? I would think it would work the same as any other tablet since it runs Windows. Thanks for the info,

Pat

 

[patq1]

Edit: This is just personal opinion, but for single pilot ops I found that any Class I unit is just too distracting. I tried for a while but went to always printing out charts. In our crew operation the EFB works great but I never reached a comfort zone with it when flying a single pilot plane.

According to the Advisory Circular, class 1 EFBs can't be used for takeoff and landing. You need a class 2 unit for that, not that there is much difference in the hardware. What is everyone else doing as far as getting approval to use the EFBs to replace the paper charts? According to the FSDO we need to comply with AC120-76 since we operate a large turbine powered aircraft. Of course, in typical government fashion, the AC and the job aid are nearly indecipherable. All information is appreciated.

Pat

 

[Flyerjosh]

Pat, are you part 91? Our FSDO essentially said we can do whatever we want with an EFB. Guess it all comes down to interpretation...

 

[patq1]

Pat, are you part 91? Our FSDO essentially said we can do whatever we want with an EFB. Guess it all comes down to interpretation...

Yes, we are part 91 with a single Falcon 900. I wish our FSDO would say the same thing! I guess the line in the AC that is hanging them up is where it says: "This guidance material also applies to operators of large and turbine-powered multi-engine aircraft operating under 14 CFR part 91, subpart F where the operating regulations require specific functionality and/or equipage. Other part 91 operations do not require any specific authorization for EFB operations provided the EFB does not replace any system or equipment required by the regulations."

I personally don't understand why it applies to us. We are operating under subpart F but we aren't replacing any required equipment. Subpart F only requires that we have the appropriate charts. It doesn't specify paper.

Pat

 

[Diesel]

I have to admit I still print out the plates.

We keep a 3 ring binder behind the seats and I update it for the most frequently traveled to airports. We only go to like 5 airports so its no big deal.

Plus its nice to know you that just to know its there just in case. For what I really don't know.

 

[Rick1128]

An interesting note. The reason I went with FDR is because at the time they were the only one installing touch screens that was able to use without the use of a special pen.

I flew a bunch of trips that had one that had to use a special pen to select everything. It drove me friggin nuts i kept losing the dang pen. You couldn't use your finger to select anything. It drove me friggin nuts.

Get one with a touch screen not a special pen you'll end up needing that dang pen on a low approach.

The FG4000 has a special pen, but your finger or a regualr pen will also operate it. And I too prefer the FG7000 for the better viewing in daytime.

The FSDO's we deal with (2) basicly are saying that the units must be permanently installed. And that the plug we have it plug the units into qualify as permanent installation.

With our boss things change so fast that it is a pain to keep up at times. But we normally print out a set of charts for our destinations. What we really like about them is updating. We operate worldwide and doing the revisions in paper takes forever. With the EFB it is 20 minutes of paper revisions every 56 days and about 30 to 45 minutes every two weeks on each EFB through the internet, any where in the world. So you don't have to be home or have th revisions shipped to you to keep them current.

 

[prpjt]

I have been looking at the LS800 with the view anywhere screen for our Falcon. I really like that unit. What is the issue with JeppView/FlightDeck? I would think it would work the same as any other tablet since it runs Windows. Thanks for the info,

Pat

The one I played with had Jeppview on it. The problem is that you couldn't thumbnail approaches or arrivals. It was a 3 step process to look at a different chart. May not be an issue with Flightdeck.

Due to the small screen size you had to scroll around to see the entire plate. So you had to have the pen in hand. A touch screen would be very handy on a screen that small.

3 hour battery life.

Edit. Just talked to a guy running an LS800 and he mentioned another issue. Jeppview requires a higher resolution screen than the LS800 has. When he downloads updates he has to go to settings and run the resoplution up to max, which jumbles the 800's screen. Then he downloads the update and changes the setting back to normal when he's done.

If he doesn't switch the res. on the unit beforehand, the download will freeze, and he gets an error message that it can't download to a unit with that low of a resolution. He also has issues with the pen.

You are correct about the Class I being stowed, not a problem for us since we have a very convenient spot to stow. We didn't want to mount anything in our smallish cockpit.

As far as FSDO's, when I called they didn't give a hoot what we did.(Not a Large aircraft) The only question asked is if it would be run by ship's power. We connect to a cig lighter plug and as far as the FSDO was concerned that is not "connected" to ship power. Their reasoning was that we were recharging the unit's power source and could easily break that link by simply unplugging the unit.

 

[patq1]

prpjt,

Thanks for the information! I have not seen JeppView/FlightDeck on an LS800. I've only seen it on an ADR FG7000 which I tried out for a weekend. I liked the screen on the LS800 much better than the one on the ADR unit. It was brighter and had a much wider viewing angle. Of course if it doesn't work very well, it isn't very good. I'll have to see if I can find one to play with some more.

Thanks again,

Pat

 

[pilotviolin]

I built ours using the LS800 and there is no issues with flitedeck. We have wxworx xm weather using their software and everything is bluetooth including the GPS. I would not buy anything bigger.

A touch screen would be nice instead of the pin. Battery life sort of sucks on the long trips, but we have a AC plugs in the cockpit, so it is a non issue.

Beware once the pax see it, it will end up in the back with them. The bluetooth XM and GPS works in the entire airplane and on occasions the CEO will start advising us if we need to climb or descent for better winds!

 

[patq1]

I built ours using the LS800 and there is no issues with flitedeck. We have wxworx xm weather using their software and everything is bluetooth including the GPS. I would not buy anything bigger.

A touch screen would be nice instead of the pin. Battery life sort of sucks on the long trips, but we have a AC plugs in the cockpit, so it is a non issue.

Beware once the pax see it, it will end up in the back with them. The bluetooth XM and GPS works in the entire airplane and on occasions the CEO will start advising us if we need to climb or descent for better winds!

I am very happy to hear that you like the LS800. That is the unit I will probably go with. I am also going to go with XM weather and I would like to run vistanav on one of the units for better terrain awareness. Motion just announced a touch screen version of the LE1600 so maybe a touch screen LS800 is not far in the future. What did you get for RAM and hard drive capacity? I am planning on 1 GB RAM and the 60GB HD for future expansion. Thanks again for the info. I was hesitant to go with the LS800 without at least hearing from someone else who was using it.

Pat

 

[pilotviolin]

We have 1 GB Ram and a 40 GB HD. Flitedeck has pretty good terrain awareness, but we hardly look at it because most the time we are up at FL40's. I wish the LS800 had a touch screen too, but other than that is a good machine. Flitedeck can be updated via the internet now so no need to worry about carry around the portable cdrom. The xm weather is by far the best thing about it.

 

[YankeeEcho]

I have the larger 1400 series Motion Computing with JeppView - and it is great - but would get the LS800 now that it's available - it's the perfect size.