Electronic devices on flight deck?

[pianoman]

Captains- do you allow FO's to use electronic devices during flight? I've noticed a definite increase in guys asking if they can plug IPod's in to the jumpseat hot mic. Had a guy the other week who wanted to watch a movie.
I told him nicely that I'd rather he didn't with me.

I'm not trying to be uptight, but you can't tell me you're concentrating on your job if you're using one of these. Plus they're evidence for the NTSB, Feds, whoever later. What do you all think?

 

[QXpeon]

What the Capt. doesn't know doesn't hurt him.

I need my therapy from all the anal jerks.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Just wait until the Captain falls asleep, then have at it.

 

["GO AROUND"]

FO's? What about us captains? Like there's a difference in an ipod and an ADF? No. Actually, you have to turn the ADF up louder cause of the static.
You think this is new? I've flown JS trans continental and watched movies with crews before. Played cards, etc....

Watching a movie? No. We don't have legs long enough to finish one.

Still trying to get my XM radio to get reception in flight.

Do you drive and listen to the radio? Whole lot more going on in the car and that's ok.

Bottom line you're the PIC.

 

[DoinTime]

Do you drive and listen to the radio? Whole lot more going on in the car and that's ok.

Driving a car is converting visual information into a mechanical response. Cruise flight is converting aural information (ATC) into a mechanical response.

Your senses generally are capable of doing one thing at a time well. Driving and listening to music works well because you are not utilizing any one sense for more than one thing. Cruise flight and reading works much the same way. Driving and watching a movie doesn't work very well though just like cruise flight and listening to your Ipod.

I watched a show on TV several months ago that compared generational groups of the past 30 years. What was interesting was the newest generation (generation "me") that is hitting the work force is typically addicted to continuous stimulation. Practically since birth this generation has been plugged into some kind electronic do-dad and this has left them totally incapable of entertaining themselves. Quite interesting I thought.

 

[JustaNumber]

I would just say don't allow their use during sterile cockpit periods. Follow the rules for pax electronics usage -- nothing below 10K or taxi. Other than that, I'm not sure of any specific prohibitions. Can anyone else think of anything specific?

 

[Flyerjosh]

I would just say don't allow their use during sterile cockpit periods. Follow the rules for pax electronics usage -- nothing below 10K or taxi. Other than that, I'm not sure of any specific prohibitions. Can anyone else think of anything specific?

Many companies/airlines specifically prohibit such operations in thier manuals (typically buried in there somewhere in some form or another).

As a personal rule, I don't care as long as it is at cruise (IE above FL180), and doesn't interfere with the crews ability to get the job done. (We all know that there are some folks that can multitask/listen, and some that can't) Personally when I fly outside of work, I use an intercomm set that screens out the music whenever there's a radio comm. If I don't have that ability, I usually set ATC at twice the volume of the other input (ipod/xm).

Of course, there's always the option of just tying into the onboard system... provided you have one.

Nothing however will ever beat the senior CRJ captain that I jumpseated with that had fashioned a homemade DVD stand that fit right over the flap guards and rested at the base of the EICAS Secondary screen. A perfect fit and view for each of us upfront...

As for getting XM to work, the signal is most likely blocked in the cockpit from the electromagnetic fields created by the heated windows... I've found my handheld GPS units have a hard time too, unless you fly with the heat turned off, or in a plane like the Slowtation that has plastic windows.

 

[RJP]

Plus they're evidence for the NTSB, Feds, whoever later. What do you all think?

So if the feds find the remains of an iPod in the wreckage, it's somehow to blame?

 

[CTS]

I don't have an I Pod, but my Treo 600 phone works just like the I Pod. Sometimes on my Nap lines everyone is tired, to keep from falling asleep I play some tunes, but the Capt dosen't know I am pluged in. My technique - I put one ear bud in so I have one ear listening to music and the other on ATC.

Don't ask don't tell!

 

[G2T]

You ever see that movie Iron Eagle, with the kid that had the tape player velcroed to his leg while he flew? He had to have the music on to beat the bad guys and save his dad. Maybe I should try that to get better landings out of the dash!

 

[PCL_128]

What the Capt. doesn't know doesn't hurt him.

I need my therapy from all the anal jerks.

Great attitude. If somebody asks me if it's alright, then I have no problem with them listening to an IPod above FL180, but if they don't ask and I catch them trying to hide it then there's gonna be some trouble.

 

[Leroy Smith]

Driving a car is converting visual information into a mechanical response. Cruise flight is converting aural information (ATC) into a mechanical response.

Your senses generally are capable of doing one thing at a time well. Driving and listening to music works well because you are not utilizing any one sense for more than one thing. Cruise flight and reading works much the same way. Driving and watching a movie doesn't work very well though just like cruise flight and listening to your Ipod.

I watched a show on TV several months ago that compared generational groups of the past 30 years. What was interesting was the newest generation (generation "me") that is hitting the work force is typically addicted to continuous stimulation. Practically since birth this generation has been plugged into some kind electronic do-dad and this has left them totally incapable of entertaining themselves. Quite interesting I thought.

Can anyone imagine the mayhem if drivers had to coordinate with some ATC-like entity? And if you could lose your license for a "deviation"?

I flew with a younger captain recently who was definitely "generation me". Real nice kid (Im one of those numbnuts who decided this would be a great 2nd or 3rd career when I am way too old for this kind of lifestyle) with excellent pilot skills: an amazing landing at mins in a blizzard with crosswinds gusting close to 40kts. But did it all to cover the time in cruise flight: iPod almost every leg, a book to read, palm pilot and even a laptop to play video games on. None of these activities really bothered me on their own, but he had a decided lack of "professionalism" for lack of a better word. Nothing unsafe, at least not grossly so. But he really lacked the discipline or polish that I expect of myself and frankly expect of anyone I fly with, especially those further up the food chain. The industry sucks in a lot of ways, but isnt being an airline pilot still a big deal?

 

[pianoman]

So if the feds find the remains of an iPod in the wreckage, it's somehow to blame?

Ummmmm..no. If you run it through the J/S hot mic like many want to, it's all recorded on the CVR. If I make a bonehead move, I don't want it to be because I was distracted by something specifically prohibited by my company.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

I don't really mind the I-Pods/Laptops at cruise, but I get a little annoyed with cell phones. I have flown with several FO's recently who leave thier phones on until takeoff, if they turn them off at all. If it rings? "Hey, whats up sweety? Oh, just getting ready for takeoff... Yeah, so what else is new?"
I normally won't really get too pissed, but if it is interfering with operating the airplane, I will.

As an aside, if your relationship is requiring that you call your significant other EVERY TIME you are on the ground, it isn't a good relationship.

 

[Cardinal]

if they don't ask and I catch them trying to hide it then there's gonna be some trouble.

Dear lord - We certainly have alot of opinions after six whole months in the left seat. There's a difference between "not making a big deal of it" and "intentionally concealing something PCL_128 absolutely must know about."

FWIW, it's never bugged me. As DoinTime pointed out, the present generation has been schooled from birth on how to take in multiple information streams simultaneously. The vast majority can pull it off flawlessly. My FO this month is the first guy that I wouldn't let fly with an iPod, becasue he can't pick up radio calls or make the simplest of decisions under perfect circumstances. I believe he was dropped as a child, or perhaps there was a frontal lobotomy he's not telling me about. Maybe it was the paint chips. Anyway, I digress...

 

[PCL_128]

There's a difference between "not making a big deal of it" and "intentionally concealing something PCL_128 absolutely must know about."

If the FOM specifically prohibits something (as the Pinnacle FOM prohibits IPods) then you had better ask the CA first. I never even picked up a magazine as an FO unless I asked the CA if he was ok with reading in cruise. I must say that I've been somewhat surprised at the attitude that a lot of FOs have. Running checklists on their own, requesting things from ATC without asking me, using IPods during sterile cockpit, cell phone conversations while taxiing, etc... I never would have even considered doing this crap when I was an FO.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

This is no different then the XJT policy that states we can't so much as read a newspaper or do Jepp revisions in flight. However, it's perfectly OK for check airmen to break out the training folder and host a question and answer session for an hour. How the hell does that make sense. Are you using less brain power by reading questions and scenarios found in a training folder then you are while browsing through the USA Today??

Only thing worse then the policy are the CA's who buy into the bullsh*t. When this happens I simply pull out the Dell Axim and play solitaire, etc while CA. Quik thinks I'm messing with logbook, etc.

 

[Cardinal]

These policies crack me up. We don't even have an autopilot, yet we can legally read anything during non sterile phases of flight, with the cockpit door wide open.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

this thread reeks of "410 it dude".

How long is a leg on a freakin RJ? 2 hours? -- gotta pull out the Ipod or sneak a game of solitaire? - nothing else to do huh? oh, thats just the stick shaker (giggle,giggle) check my hair dude (har-har) hey, see my new $200 sunglasses? (cool huh?)...hang on, I got a text someone.....Tag in the jetway - you're it!......

freakin Captain....he's such a company SOP Dork, huh?

Kind of reminds me of kids in the back of a car, fighting over who watches what on the DVD, gameboy etc...

then again, "I'll act like a professional when they start paying me like one"...

right?

 

[JetlinkFO]

If the FOM specifically prohibits something (as the Pinnacle FOM prohibits IPods) then you had better ask the CA first. I never even picked up a magazine as an FO unless I asked the CA if he was ok with reading in cruise. I must say that I've been somewhat surprised at the attitude that a lot of FOs have. Running checklists on their own, requesting things from ATC without asking me, using IPods during sterile cockpit, cell phone conversations while taxiing, etc... I never would have even considered doing this crap when I was an FO.

I am so greatful I don't have you as a captain. "Running checklists on thier own" Are you kidding me? Get over yourself. Some of that otherstuff isn't cool, like cell phone calls while taxiing. But seriously, running checklists? That's their job.

 

[h25b]

I am so greatful I don't have you as a captain. "Running checklists on thier own" Are you kidding me? Get over yourself. Some of that otherstuff isn't cool, like cell phone calls while taxiing. But seriously, running checklists? That's their job.

Agreed... Who the heck cares if they're doing the checklists without your permission. If they get them completed correctly and when appropriate I say, "have at it..." or my more frequent call out, "read 'em..." 90% of our total checklist is to be performed by the PNF ONLY.

It's the ones that forget to do them or the ones that try to do them from memory and screw it up that really grind my gears.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Pcl128

I am so greatful I don't have you as a captain. "Running checklists on thier own" Are you kidding me? Get over yourself.

You want to figure out who PCL 128 really is. Just check the open time pot. Most of his trips will be there.

Didn't they teach you anything about CRM at Gulfstream?

 

[GINCHBLASTER]

I must say that I've been somewhat surprised at the attitude that a lot of FOs have. Running checklists on their own, requesting things from ATC without asking me, using IPods during sterile cockpit, cell phone conversations while taxiing, etc... I never would have even considered doing this crap when I was an FO.

What if they pay you to run the checklists? Would it be ok then?

 

[Cardinal]

this thread reeks of "410 it dude".

How long is a leg on a freakin RJ? 2 hours?

Exactly what do you do for those intervening hours, when you're direct to BFE 1200 miles away? Stare out the window? Talk about stocks? Complain about your ex-wives? How is that so much safer during non-sterile phases of flight?

After all, most fatal accidents occur during the straight and level, unaccelerated, at cruise altitude, A/P LNAV+VNAV engaged, fair weather enroute phase, right? LOL.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Exactly what do you do for those intervening hours, when you're direct to BFE 1200 miles away? Stare out the window? Talk about stocks? Complain about your ex-wives? How is that so much safer during non-sterile phases of flight?

After all, most fatal accidents occur during the straight and level, unaccelerated, at cruise altitude, A/P LNAV+VNAV engaged, fair weather enroute phase, right? LOL.

uh, before you "LOL" too much ---

Yeah, in fact, I think thats when your boy wonder Pinnacle boys lost it in their super RJ?

just hanging out at criuse...(well, sorta hanging there..)

Did they have Ipods on? switching seats? yuking it up? DUDE!

heck, nothing else to do when cleared direct huh?



What would you jackoffs do with all that ADD on a 13 hour leg?



.

 

[satpak77]

Captains- do you allow FO's to use electronic devices during flight? I've noticed a definite increase in guys asking if they can plug IPod's in to the jumpseat hot mic. Had a guy the other week who wanted to watch a movie.
I told him nicely that I'd rather he didn't with me.

I'm not trying to be uptight, but you can't tell me you're concentrating on your job if you're using one of these. Plus they're evidence for the NTSB, Feds, whoever later. What do you all think?

at my place, DVD players, Portable Playstation, Tom Clancy novels, USA Today, Hustler, doing Ham Radio on the HF, are all ALLOWED at ALL TIMES as long as you don't run out of gas or land with the gear up. Nextel-ing your passengers at the FBO when you are on the LOC is also not a problem.

Above tasks must be divided by the crew. BOTH pilots cannot be on Nextel while on final, one can be on Nextel and the other one can be asking Foxy Lady out on 122.95 on COMM-2, that is approved, no issue with that.

Also, since all pilots, PIC and SIC, are typed in the airplane, the designated Captain can go to the back and sleep for like 4 hours if crew agrees that "things are quiet" up front and if the CP "needs anything, I will let you know....go relax...I have it"

Sleeping in the aisle on some $2 foam from Hobby Lobby is approved also, on company ferry flights with empty airplane.

Proper CRM involves good crew coordination and dividing tasks to allow a safe operation.

 

["GO AROUND"]

You want to figure out who PCL 128 really is. Just check the open time pot. Most of his trips will be there.

Didn't they teach you anything about CRM at Gulfstream?

Dang!!!!!!! LOL.......