EK Road Shows

[Green]

Emirates is conducting several US road shows soon. Just a heads up to those considering joining. I would avoid it unless you are nearing retirement and want to save some tax free money prior to hanging up your career. Quality of life has gone down the toilet during the last year and those without an escape route back home are seriously unhappy.

The contract you sign is not what you will be faced with upon joining. Since Emirates is basically Dubai you have no recourse. No way to arbitrate any disagreements or sue if you feel you have been short changed. If you don't like it there's the door is a common HR reply. Of course when you attend the interview it's all roses and shiny new 777/380's.

Vacation or lack thereof is my biggest gripe. You get zero credit for a vacation day at EK. This is a recent change. The airline is critically staffed due to so many resignations so you absolutely will not get your 42 days of contractually mandated leave. Instead the company will give you 30 days (mandated by UAE law for all workers) and the rest will go into a leave bank. But to add insult to injury they generally give you blocks of 7 days of leave. Since you get no credit for leave you will have 7 days of leave, 13-15 total days off (including your leave), and about 85-92 hours of flying. So your "leave" month will be exactly the same as a non leave month. It's BS with a capital BS. Every month you will have between 8-15 days off and a minimum of 80 hours of flying unless you are somehow able to get 21 days of leave in a row.

Another problem is that they require you to be "acclimatised" prior to a ULR duty. This requires 3 local nights in Dubai. After your 7 day vacation they will generally stick a ULR flight. In order to comply with the company policy you have to fly back to Dubai after day 3 of vacation in order to be acclimatised for your next duty. You can ignore this rule but you run the risk of getting a warning letter which delays that quick upgrade you came for. Also they don't give credit for sim or ground duties of any kind. So you can get a month with 90 hours of flying, 3 days of sim, and 2 days of ground school.

The list goes on and on. But if you choose to come to EK know that you are committing yourself to living in the ME and you will only see the loved ones back home a couple times a year if that. I've had a good run here but I would never join today considering the downward spiral and lengthening upgrade times. Just two years ago it was common to get 15-18 days off in a non leave month. Now I can't even get that with vacation added in.

 

[sniper]

Emirates is conducting several US road shows soon. Just a heads up to those considering joining. I would avoid it unless you are nearing retirement and want to save some tax free money prior to hanging up your career. Quality of life has gone down the toilet during the last year and those without an escape route back home are seriously unhappy.

The contract you sign is not what you will be faced with upon joining. Since Emirates is basically Dubai you have no recourse. No way to arbitrate any disagreements or sue if you feel you have been short changed. If you don't like it there's the door is a common HR reply. Of course when you attend the interview it's all roses and shiny new 777/380's.

Vacation or lack thereof is my biggest gripe. You get zero credit for a vacation day at EK. This is a recent change. The airline is critically staffed due to so many resignations so you absolutely will not get your 42 days of contractually mandated leave. Instead the company will give you 30 days (mandated by UAE law for all workers) and the rest will go into a leave bank. But to add insult to injury they generally give you blocks of 7 days of leave. Since you get no credit for leave you will have 7 days of leave, 13-15 total days off (including your leave), and about 85-92 hours of flying. So your "leave" month will be exactly the same as a non leave month. It's BS with a capital BS. Every month you will have between 8-15 days off and a minimum of 80 hours of flying unless you are somehow able to get 21 days of leave in a row.

Another problem is that they require you to be "acclimatised" prior to a ULR duty. This requires 3 local nights in Dubai. After your 7 day vacation they will generally stick a ULR flight. In order to comply with the company policy you have to fly back to Dubai after day 3 of vacation in order to be acclimatised for your next duty. You can ignore this rule but you run the risk of getting a warning letter which delays that quick upgrade you came for. Also they don't give credit for sim or ground duties of any kind. So you can get a month with 90 hours of flying, 3 days of sim, and 2 days of ground school.

The list goes on and on. But if you choose to come to EK know that you are committing yourself to living in the ME and you will only see the loved ones back home a couple times a year if that. I've had a good run here but I would never join today considering the downward spiral and lengthening upgrade times. Just two years ago it was common to get 15-18 days off in a non leave month. Now I can't even get that with vacation added in.

I thought 777 Fos make around 200k and Captains 28k per month
The shiny RJ at 2000 has become the shiny 777 at 2015


How many EK guys getting hired at the Legacies anyway, do you know?

 

[Green]

FO's make about 150-165k first year if you include housing allotment. CA's about 205-240 depending on longevity. Factor in the tax break and yes you would take home about the equivalent of a guy making 280(CA) and 200+(FO) in the states. The money is good. It's the quality of life that has been on a steep decline lately. Quite a few guys here have numbers at the legacies and are waiting till final recall. Others are applying or leaving for the big 3 or ALK, SWA, etc as new hires. Some are nearing retirement and are staying to put money in the bank. A few are heading to Asia and a smaller few are happy at EK.

Up until the latest wave of new contracts the compensation at EK was better than just about anything in the states except for Fedex/UPS. Not many US jobs would start you at 150+ then upgrade you to CA within 4 years and bump your pay to 200+ virtually tax free.

 

[macdu]

As someone working overseas I would like to know how as a U.S. citizen you can earn all this money virtually tax free as you say. If you have a United States passport, you owe Uncle Sam at the very least 15% for the privilege of having that document.

 

[Diesel]

I went to one of the road shows.

Room set up for 500, 5 people showed up, none were qualified.

 

[bafanguy]

I went to one of the road shows.

Was that in the US ? If not, which one...and did the people putting it on have any comment about the attendance level ?

 

[Diesel]

U.S. Road show.

It was like pretending the big group is coming later.

 

[bafanguy]

It was like pretending the big group is coming later.

I take it they didn't ?

 

[Diesel]

I take it they didn't ?

I've seen more optimism at a time share seminar.

 

[CLCAP]

As someone working overseas I would like to know how as a U.S. citizen you can earn all this money virtually tax free as you say. If you have a United States passport, you owe Uncle Sam at the very least 15% for the privilege of having that document.

Look up "foreign income exclusion"

 

[bafanguy]

I've seen more optimism at a time share seminar.

THAT...is funny stuff !! :laugh:

 

[NEDude]

Look up "foreign income exclusion"

Foreign earned income only applies to regular income earned within the borders of another country. It does not include housing allowances, bonuses, or retirement and investment accounts/dividends. Nor does it include, according to the IRS interpretation, any money earned in international airspace or international waters. Anything earned while flying over the Indian, Atlantic or Pacific oceans (or any other international airspace) is considered by the IRS to have been earned in the United States and thus not eligible for the foreign income exclusion. Also, unless you are covered by the social security program of another country, you will owe at least 15% of your income in Social Security tax. In order to claim an exemption for the 15% Social Security tax you will be required to get an official letter or some other documentation that proves you are covered by another country.

There are a lot of gotchas in the tax code and many expatriates have mistakenly believed they get a lot more tax breaks than they really do. I personally know three people who are paying out a lot in massive IRS penalties because they earned money overseas for years and were not fully aware of all of the laws. You would be wise to consult a professional who specialises in expat taxes before you make a move abroad so you can fully understand everything that will apply to you.

 

[Green]

Actually there is an adjustment for your housing allowance. It's based off the city you are a foreign resident of. Dubai has a very high cost of living adjustment. I believe it's in the high 40k range. So you get your 90k+ exclusion plus the cost of living adjustment which puts your tax free income at 130-140k. The international waters issue is a tough one to monitor. A flight from Dubai to MNL for example could be largely over international waters or it could be nearly entirely over land if you take the northerly route. Entirely depends on the winds, weather, etc. Dubai-LAX is virtually entirely over land because you head straight north over the pole and then south over Canada. I wonder if the IRS tracks the ice melt when determining international waters...

 

[sinkrate]

Foreign earned income only applies to regular income earned within the borders of another country. It does not include housing allowances, bonuses, or retirement and investment accounts/dividends. Nor does it include, according to the IRS interpretation, any money earned in international airspace or international waters. Anything earned while flying over the Indian, Atlantic or Pacific oceans (or any other international airspace) is considered by the IRS to have been earned in the United States and thus not eligible for the foreign income exclusion. Also, unless you are covered by the social security program of another country, you will owe at least 15% of your income in Social Security tax. In order to claim an exemption for the 15% Social Security tax you will be required to get an official letter or some other documentation that proves you are covered by another country.

There are a lot of gotchas in the tax code and many expatriates have mistakenly believed they get a lot more tax breaks than they really do. I personally know three people who are paying out a lot in massive IRS penalties because they earned money overseas for years and were not fully aware of all of the laws. You would be wise to consult a professional who specialises in expat taxes before you make a move abroad so you can fully understand everything that will apply to you.

There is some incorrect information in this post. If you have a residents permit, work visa, and a physical residence in a foriegn country there are several different methods to qualify for the 'foriegn income exclusion'. The method you choose will determine how many days a year you can spend in the US. Choose one method it is not many, you cant work while here, and all the extras are also taxable income. Choose another and you can return to the US as much as you want, work some of those days, and the extras may be treated differently. Do your home work or go to a tax accountant that specializes in expat taxes. But don't screw it up. If the IRS catches you cheating they are brutal about garnishing wages. You will also get special treatment by customs everytime you enter the US. Been there, done that.

Another thing to consider is the exclusion will lower your marginal tax rate. The income you do pay taxes on will be taxed starting from the zero income bracket.

 

[NEDude]

There is some incorrect information in this post. If you have a residents permit, work visa, and a physical residence in a foriegn country there are several different methods to qualify for the 'foriegn income exclusion'. The method you choose will determine how many days a year you can spend in the US. Choose one method it is not many, you cant work while here, and all the extras are also taxable income. Choose another and you can return to the US as much as you want, work some of those days, and the extras may be treated differently. Do your home work or go to a tax accountant that specializes in expat taxes. But don't screw it up. If the IRS catches you cheating they are brutal about garnishing wages. You will also get special treatment by customs everytime you enter the US. Been there, done that.

Another thing to consider is the exclusion will lower your marginal tax rate. The income you do pay taxes on will be taxed starting from the zero income bracket.

My point is valid even if some of the information may not be entirely correct in every circumstance. The point is that being an expat is extremely complicated from a U.S. tax perspective and there are a lot of people who mistakenly believe that they do not have to file/pay taxes if they work overseas. Not all sources of income are exempt, in fact many sources are not exempt at all. In several cases you end up paying double tax. There are numerous forms that may have to be filed to other government branches besides the IRS depending on how much money you have overseas, if you have business interests overseas, or even if you have signing authority on a foreign companies account. Recently the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (never even heard of them) has recently decided to require any American who has anything over a 10% stake in a foreign corporation, no matter how small, to file a form with them. So if you set up a sole proprietorship or LLC in a foreign country you must file this form or face a $10,000 fine and a year in prison. This is not IRS stuff, but still applicable to U.S. expats. If you have overseas accounts (more than $10,000 aggregate total in all accounts) make sure you file you FBAR forms to the Department of the Treasury Financial Crimes Enforcement Network by June 30 or you could be facing up to $500,000 in fines and ten years in prison if your failure to file was combined with another tax error.

Anyway, this may have been long winded, but my point is to consult a specialist in U.S. expat taxes before you decide to move or work abroad so you can get a clear sense of what you will be dealing with. I know many people who lived and worked outside of the United States who had no idea what their obligations were and are now paying dearly for it. The U.S. tax code is so complex and there are a lot of pitfalls and traps, especially for those of us who live and work outside the United States. A tax professional is HIGHLY recommended and virtually required for anyone with dealings outside the United States. And that information is not incorrect.

 

[sniper]

Has the IRS audit the EK employed American pilots?

 

[NEDude]

Has the IRS audit the EK employed American pilots?

Can't speak to audits, but I do have a friend working for Emirates and he says several banks in Dubai have begun refusing American customers due to FATCA.

 

[Green]

Yes the IRS has audited many EK pilots. I personally know of 3 and they all seemed to know many others. There seems to be an IRS office in NC that is gunning for EK pilots. They claim that all flying done over international waters is taxable. That kind of kills the whole purpose of flying overseas. Fortunately for EK most of our flights have different routing depending on the winds. How the IRS could prove that on a particular date you over flew the bay of bengal vs flying over India, Bangladesh, and Yangon is beyond me.