EJA letter

[BIGSLAW]

beytzim is gonna kick my a$$ for saying something...sorry dude I have to...been gone for a several days without my laptop and Im just now getting to read all of this.(plus Ive had 4 cups of coffee and need to channel my twitchy fingers)

First of all this the angle Im coming from..My Dad and Granddad were both military pilots...I am a civi (thanks to an offensive guard that went left instead of right I have two screws in my knee) So I have heard it all..both at home and in the workplace.

Out of all the BS this is some of the points Ive been able to retain...

Mil's and Civ's both have good and not so good points. The Mil's good points are (among others, so not to start a new flame) the fact that they have been through the ringer on the selection process. They were chosen to fly because they were the pick of the litter..they passed extensive background checks, health exams, and succesfully completed a very regimented training program. Employers know what they are getting, alot of the work is done. Plus since way back in the old days (like 20 years ago or more), military pilots WERE the largest group of qualified candidates...because of the training, jet time, high altitude flight, sop's, etc. So most of the people in the position to hire are from the military...they know what they went through and feel like Mil's are still a primo choice. Nothing wrong with that! The not so good points are that Mil's do have to transition a little bit, not that its real hard, but this is a little different environment. In SOME cases they may be in a crew environment for the first time, where CRM is critical. If they are going into the corporate world they now have to think outside a box that had no defined shape to begin with...(just a tidbit here..I didnt fly in the military but I was a grunt in the Army, I was in several situations where I got shot at, including Mogadisu from June to October, so I know that military situations require thinking outside of the box...but the military box has much more defined edges) Now dont get me wrong, I have flown with Mil's and they all are great guys(havent flown with any FeMil's) but the ones that are fresh out do have a tendancy to get behind the power curve sometimes. This is normal, and in time they get it, and do awesome. ( trust me, if I had to land in a foreign country with no lights getting shot at Id be a tad bit flustered, myself) I wont go into examples, I think you guys know what Im talking about.
As for Civ's...the good points are that they come from the very environment that they will be flying in...the civilian world. Most of them have been dealing with passengers, catering, luggage, ice&coffee, ramp checks, FBO's,expenses, fuel conservation, blah blah...you know. I know Mil's do alot of the same stuff, but based on what all the ones that Ive flown with have explained to me... it seems to be a little different. Ill stop there...on that point, no real tactful way to explain that any more.
The not so good side is that employers have no idea what they are getting with a civ. We come from all different backgrounds. Some slip through the cracks and cant fly worth a fiddlers poo. And there are just as many (if not more) jerks that are civ's.

The catch is in todays world there are guys flying jets right of of flight school, been to Flightsafey, Simuflite, etc. several times, the standards are higher, the training is better, and with todays technology background information is as easy to get as a cup of coffee.

The bottom line...For the most part, each background has just as much to offer...in the end we sit next to each other in cockpit trying to do the best job we can. We can learn from each other and become better at what we do. I have learned a great deal from the Mil's Ive flown with and have hopefully givin them some valuble info as well.

My dad went with me to take the airplane to maint. one time. We eneded up holding for a while in some real crappy weather, only to shoot the ILS in extremely unfavorable conditions. I didnt think it was a big deal, but after we shut down he said " very nice, you did a hell of a job...but what would you have done if during all of that you were getting shot at?" My response was.."Hey dad, your airplane!"

Guess you had to be there.

.....well...that was a little wordy...no more coffee for me!

 

[capt_zman]

I don't know why we even waste the CPU cycles posting about this stuff. The mil's have and will always have every advantage when entering the civilian market due to the obvious fact of structured/disciplined training in a structured/disciplined environment. Very few civilians can claim this.

So when interview day comes along, you can bet that there will not be one single discrepancy with appearance, paperwork, verbal skills, attitude, etc, because yes, we as civilians are the underdog. No need for pissing or moaning, just step it up a level when your turn comes.

 

[acaTerry]

Not necessarily so. When I was hired at ACA (1998, everybody wanted to work here) there were just over 15 of us interviewing that day. Of this, 9 were military. Of all of us who interviewed, only 6 were offered jobs. Of the 6, there was only one military guy, a C130 pilot/Commander. Yes, it's true that the military pilots come with some skills and experience that are difficult to find in civilian pilots. But the airlines look at more than just the word "Civil" or "Military" on an application.
When I was an FO, I generally liked the Civil Captains better because for the most part they were easier to get along with and had more reception to your input (and this is coming to you from a Jarhead). I'm not bashing ANYONE here, hold your breath. Just from the guys I've known who do interviews (2 regional and 2 majors) they say it is a "whole-package" deal that makes you or breaks you. No bellyaching about how disadvantaged someone is. That's a sign of the inability to better one's self----aka immaturity, which is a reason some people do not get hired. Myself, I was an enlisted Marine who flew the civil route to the airlines so I guess I can give a pretty objective opinion here. But that's all it is, my opinion.