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sparticusflt
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2001
- Posts
- 55
Re: Check up
lrjet55 where in the h*ll did you see anything in this message regarding ass kissing in the military? I can't see it at all. What I see is a man trying to get a job and in the holding pattern and wondering what the hell is going on. I've been at EJA for over 2 years now and have flown with all types of pilots from military to civilian. I can honestly say that I don't have a problem from either groups. Except of course the occasional pinheads like your self that give civilian pilots a bad rep. If you are a new pilot here I suggest you lighten up your gonna be meeting all types. That is the beauty of this pilot group. It doesn't really matter where you come from as long as your cool and have a sense of humor and a good stick thats all that matters. We have the job that a lot of people want right now, it does not give us the right to throw it in anyones faces. So now you represent EJA pilot group, I for one don't want strangers looking at me as if I'm a D**KHEAD for something you've said. I've been a civi pilot for my career and I have learned that you always help the guys on the bottom or in need. It doesn't matter if they are from military or civilian.
Oh by the way if you don't lighten up and you act like a jerk, the training department can smell that out and the ax will fall. I'll see you in the 800xp seeing that I'm a captain in it.
Lrjet55 said:
lrjet55 where in the h*ll did you see anything in this message regarding ass kissing in the military? I can't see it at all. What I see is a man trying to get a job and in the holding pattern and wondering what the hell is going on. I've been at EJA for over 2 years now and have flown with all types of pilots from military to civilian. I can honestly say that I don't have a problem from either groups. Except of course the occasional pinheads like your self that give civilian pilots a bad rep. If you are a new pilot here I suggest you lighten up your gonna be meeting all types. That is the beauty of this pilot group. It doesn't really matter where you come from as long as your cool and have a sense of humor and a good stick thats all that matters. We have the job that a lot of people want right now, it does not give us the right to throw it in anyones faces. So now you represent EJA pilot group, I for one don't want strangers looking at me as if I'm a D**KHEAD for something you've said. I've been a civi pilot for my career and I have learned that you always help the guys on the bottom or in need. It doesn't matter if they are from military or civilian.
Oh by the way if you don't lighten up and you act like a jerk, the training department can smell that out and the ax will fall. I'll see you in the 800xp seeing that I'm a captain in it.
My Mistake
My mistake fellas. I still hold that I am entitled to my opinion whether I am perfectly right or incompetetly wrong. My first post was not meant to offend and the rest got out of hand. I have had a few bad experiences with the wrong people and I am judging all of you. So I say it, I was wrong.
Lrjet55
My mistake fellas. I still hold that I am entitled to my opinion whether I am perfectly right or incompetetly wrong. My first post was not meant to offend and the rest got out of hand. I have had a few bad experiences with the wrong people and I am judging all of you. So I say it, I was wrong.
Lrjet55
acaTerry
SAPM
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
- Posts
- 2,393
flyboysgal
from the gang at home
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2002
- Posts
- 53
Before all the fun started....
I had wanted to comment (and I am sure it is dumb....) about not just being a piece of paper, or a fax or an email.
Any of you on the paper shifting end of it please join the row, but as a girl, I had this idea of jazzing up the res.
Is it so totally UN COOL to stick a pic, a bit of color or a...dare I say...AD in the paperwork?
I talked to a non airline HR hotshot and she said a photo of the candidate, although not technically a good thing, tells age, health and can influence both favorably or not her choice.
SHE was not allowed to ask if they were 18 year old tubs of lard or 59 and not worth the time. She also said family shots with kids brought an "Oh no, trips to Disneyland and summer time off"
I tried to talk my job seeking mate into a clean line drawing of the plane he was applying for on the top and he just did the DRAGNET thing:
Just the facts ma'am!
Your input?
(PS, all pilots seem to have egos, it is not civ or mil... just the altitude I bet!)
I had wanted to comment (and I am sure it is dumb....) about not just being a piece of paper, or a fax or an email.
Any of you on the paper shifting end of it please join the row, but as a girl, I had this idea of jazzing up the res.
Is it so totally UN COOL to stick a pic, a bit of color or a...dare I say...AD in the paperwork?
I talked to a non airline HR hotshot and she said a photo of the candidate, although not technically a good thing, tells age, health and can influence both favorably or not her choice.
SHE was not allowed to ask if they were 18 year old tubs of lard or 59 and not worth the time. She also said family shots with kids brought an "Oh no, trips to Disneyland and summer time off"
I tried to talk my job seeking mate into a clean line drawing of the plane he was applying for on the top and he just did the DRAGNET thing:
Just the facts ma'am!
Your input?
(PS, all pilots seem to have egos, it is not civ or mil... just the altitude I bet!)
EMB145
Frequent Flyer
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2002
- Posts
- 77
flyboysgal
from the gang at home
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2002
- Posts
- 53
got your point...
Discression is the better part of valor.... I alway liked that saying! Seems like I can use it here.
BUT any other ideas how to pop out as a person, before you get to harassing by phone? There must be a way to open an eyeball so you get looked at without always seeming lost in the shuffle.
In this economy, the NORM has been not even a "thanks a lot for sending" just dead air.
Email seems like a total lost of bandwidth and at least snail mail can go with a reciept requested.
Network network network!
Discression is the better part of valor.... I alway liked that saying! Seems like I can use it here.
BUT any other ideas how to pop out as a person, before you get to harassing by phone? There must be a way to open an eyeball so you get looked at without always seeming lost in the shuffle.
In this economy, the NORM has been not even a "thanks a lot for sending" just dead air.
Email seems like a total lost of bandwidth and at least snail mail can go with a reciept requested.
Network network network!
beytzim is gonna kick my a$$ for saying something...sorry dude I have to...been gone for a several days without my laptop and Im just now getting to read all of this.(plus Ive had 4 cups of coffee and need to channel my twitchy fingers)
First of all this the angle Im coming from..My Dad and Granddad were both military pilots...I am a civi (thanks to an offensive guard that went left instead of right I have two screws in my knee) So I have heard it all..both at home and in the workplace.
Out of all the BS this is some of the points Ive been able to retain...
Mil's and Civ's both have good and not so good points. The Mil's good points are (among others, so not to start a new flame) the fact that they have been through the ringer on the selection process. They were chosen to fly because they were the pick of the litter..they passed extensive background checks, health exams, and succesfully completed a very regimented training program. Employers know what they are getting, alot of the work is done. Plus since way back in the old days (like 20 years ago or more), military pilots WERE the largest group of qualified candidates...because of the training, jet time, high altitude flight, sop's, etc. So most of the people in the position to hire are from the military...they know what they went through and feel like Mil's are still a primo choice. Nothing wrong with that! The not so good points are that Mil's do have to transition a little bit, not that its real hard, but this is a little different environment. In SOME cases they may be in a crew environment for the first time, where CRM is critical. If they are going into the corporate world they now have to think outside a box that had no defined shape to begin with...(just a tidbit here..I didnt fly in the military but I was a grunt in the Army, I was in several situations where I got shot at, including Mogadisu from June to October, so I know that military situations require thinking outside of the box...but the military box has much more defined edges) Now dont get me wrong, I have flown with Mil's and they all are great guys(havent flown with any FeMil's) but the ones that are fresh out do have a tendancy to get behind the power curve sometimes. This is normal, and in time they get it, and do awesome. ( trust me, if I had to land in a foreign country with no lights getting shot at Id be a tad bit flustered, myself) I wont go into examples, I think you guys know what Im talking about.
As for Civ's...the good points are that they come from the very environment that they will be flying in...the civilian world. Most of them have been dealing with passengers, catering, luggage, ice&coffee, ramp checks, FBO's,expenses, fuel conservation, blah blah...you know. I know Mil's do alot of the same stuff, but based on what all the ones that Ive flown with have explained to me... it seems to be a little different. Ill stop there...on that point, no real tactful way to explain that any more.
The not so good side is that employers have no idea what they are getting with a civ. We come from all different backgrounds. Some slip through the cracks and cant fly worth a fiddlers poo. And there are just as many (if not more) jerks that are civ's.
The catch is in todays world there are guys flying jets right of of flight school, been to Flightsafey, Simuflite, etc. several times, the standards are higher, the training is better, and with todays technology background information is as easy to get as a cup of coffee.
The bottom line...For the most part, each background has just as much to offer...in the end we sit next to each other in cockpit trying to do the best job we can. We can learn from each other and become better at what we do. I have learned a great deal from the Mil's Ive flown with and have hopefully givin them some valuble info as well.
My dad went with me to take the airplane to maint. one time. We eneded up holding for a while in some real crappy weather, only to shoot the ILS in extremely unfavorable conditions. I didnt think it was a big deal, but after we shut down he said " very nice, you did a hell of a job...but what would you have done if during all of that you were getting shot at?" My response was.."Hey dad, your airplane!"
Guess you had to be there.
.....well...that was a little wordy...no more coffee for me!
First of all this the angle Im coming from..My Dad and Granddad were both military pilots...I am a civi (thanks to an offensive guard that went left instead of right I have two screws in my knee) So I have heard it all..both at home and in the workplace.
Out of all the BS this is some of the points Ive been able to retain...
Mil's and Civ's both have good and not so good points. The Mil's good points are (among others, so not to start a new flame) the fact that they have been through the ringer on the selection process. They were chosen to fly because they were the pick of the litter..they passed extensive background checks, health exams, and succesfully completed a very regimented training program. Employers know what they are getting, alot of the work is done. Plus since way back in the old days (like 20 years ago or more), military pilots WERE the largest group of qualified candidates...because of the training, jet time, high altitude flight, sop's, etc. So most of the people in the position to hire are from the military...they know what they went through and feel like Mil's are still a primo choice. Nothing wrong with that! The not so good points are that Mil's do have to transition a little bit, not that its real hard, but this is a little different environment. In SOME cases they may be in a crew environment for the first time, where CRM is critical. If they are going into the corporate world they now have to think outside a box that had no defined shape to begin with...(just a tidbit here..I didnt fly in the military but I was a grunt in the Army, I was in several situations where I got shot at, including Mogadisu from June to October, so I know that military situations require thinking outside of the box...but the military box has much more defined edges) Now dont get me wrong, I have flown with Mil's and they all are great guys(havent flown with any FeMil's) but the ones that are fresh out do have a tendancy to get behind the power curve sometimes. This is normal, and in time they get it, and do awesome. ( trust me, if I had to land in a foreign country with no lights getting shot at Id be a tad bit flustered, myself) I wont go into examples, I think you guys know what Im talking about.
As for Civ's...the good points are that they come from the very environment that they will be flying in...the civilian world. Most of them have been dealing with passengers, catering, luggage, ice&coffee, ramp checks, FBO's,expenses, fuel conservation, blah blah...you know. I know Mil's do alot of the same stuff, but based on what all the ones that Ive flown with have explained to me... it seems to be a little different. Ill stop there...on that point, no real tactful way to explain that any more.
The not so good side is that employers have no idea what they are getting with a civ. We come from all different backgrounds. Some slip through the cracks and cant fly worth a fiddlers poo. And there are just as many (if not more) jerks that are civ's.
The catch is in todays world there are guys flying jets right of of flight school, been to Flightsafey, Simuflite, etc. several times, the standards are higher, the training is better, and with todays technology background information is as easy to get as a cup of coffee.
The bottom line...For the most part, each background has just as much to offer...in the end we sit next to each other in cockpit trying to do the best job we can. We can learn from each other and become better at what we do. I have learned a great deal from the Mil's Ive flown with and have hopefully givin them some valuble info as well.
My dad went with me to take the airplane to maint. one time. We eneded up holding for a while in some real crappy weather, only to shoot the ILS in extremely unfavorable conditions. I didnt think it was a big deal, but after we shut down he said " very nice, you did a hell of a job...but what would you have done if during all of that you were getting shot at?" My response was.."Hey dad, your airplane!"
Guess you had to be there.
.....well...that was a little wordy...no more coffee for me!
capt_zman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 462
I don't know why we even waste the CPU cycles posting about this stuff. The mil's have and will always have every advantage when entering the civilian market due to the obvious fact of structured/disciplined training in a structured/disciplined environment. Very few civilians can claim this.
So when interview day comes along, you can bet that there will not be one single discrepancy with appearance, paperwork, verbal skills, attitude, etc, because yes, we as civilians are the underdog. No need for pissing or moaning, just step it up a level when your turn comes.
So when interview day comes along, you can bet that there will not be one single discrepancy with appearance, paperwork, verbal skills, attitude, etc, because yes, we as civilians are the underdog. No need for pissing or moaning, just step it up a level when your turn comes.
acaTerry
SAPM
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
- Posts
- 2,393
Not necessarily so. When I was hired at ACA (1998, everybody wanted to work here) there were just over 15 of us interviewing that day. Of this, 9 were military. Of all of us who interviewed, only 6 were offered jobs. Of the 6, there was only one military guy, a C130 pilot/Commander. Yes, it's true that the military pilots come with some skills and experience that are difficult to find in civilian pilots. But the airlines look at more than just the word "Civil" or "Military" on an application.
When I was an FO, I generally liked the Civil Captains better because for the most part they were easier to get along with and had more reception to your input (and this is coming to you from a Jarhead). I'm not bashing ANYONE here, hold your breath. Just from the guys I've known who do interviews (2 regional and 2 majors) they say it is a "whole-package" deal that makes you or breaks you. No bellyaching about how disadvantaged someone is. That's a sign of the inability to better one's self----aka immaturity, which is a reason some people do not get hired. Myself, I was an enlisted Marine who flew the civil route to the airlines so I guess I can give a pretty objective opinion here. But that's all it is, my opinion.
When I was an FO, I generally liked the Civil Captains better because for the most part they were easier to get along with and had more reception to your input (and this is coming to you from a Jarhead). I'm not bashing ANYONE here, hold your breath. Just from the guys I've known who do interviews (2 regional and 2 majors) they say it is a "whole-package" deal that makes you or breaks you. No bellyaching about how disadvantaged someone is. That's a sign of the inability to better one's self----aka immaturity, which is a reason some people do not get hired. Myself, I was an enlisted Marine who flew the civil route to the airlines so I guess I can give a pretty objective opinion here. But that's all it is, my opinion.
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