Eclispse an NJA?

[Frac Daddy]

Just wondering if any of you NJA-types know if your company is interested in the Eclipse? Our CEO, Kenn Ricci, seems cautiously optimistic about it. What does Uncle Warren think about it? Just curious.

 

[Diesel]

we were told that the low cost of operating one of those eclipses with the low aquisition costs would make it prohibative to fractional buisness.

They figured that the cost of the crew would be the same as the operating costs.

That's what we were told.

D

 

[Visceral]

Maybe its just me, but I don't understand that response. Since when is cutting costs prohibitive to any business, including Fractionals? "Bob, we'd love to buy your airplane, but it doesn't cost enough." Is the eclipse not the same high quality you guys have already? That I could understand.

 

[tdvalve]

"Since when is cutting costs prohibitive to any business, including Fractionals?"

Good point , and I doubt that NJA is avoiding them for that reason. But, keep in mind that the big moneymaker for fractionals is selling airplanes, not operating them.

 

[CL600Pilot]

I'm not a finance major but I doubt the profit margin on an Eclipse operation would be very high. What happens when an Eclipse isn't available to cover an owner trip? At NJA when that happens they send another airplane or charter an aircraft to cover the trip. We have covered alot of NJA Ultra trips in our Challenger! What happens when an airplane like the Challenger is the only charter airplane available in time to cover the Eclipse trip? Maybe a Hawker is available to fly the trip - - even so if you do that more than about once you kill the profit from the Eclipse contract.

I was just sitting here thinking about it and given the aquisition costs, add NJA's profit from the sale of the share, add NJA's monthly management fee(usually tens of thousands of dollars), and the hourly rate and I can see how owning a fractional Eclipse could be just as expensive, if not moreso, than owning the entire airplane. Look at the crew issues alone - I would think that if any Eclipses make it into corporate service they will probably fly as single pilot airplanes. NJA isn't going to fly anything single pilot and actually for their operation they need around 5 pilots per airplane (I believe an earlier post said FO uses a ratio of 4.6 pilots per airplane). That's alot of extra salary to tack on even if you're only paying half or a fourth.

Above all else I would suspect - as mentioned above - that the fracs are shying away from it because it's a new, untested, light, cheap(cost wise) airplane - maybe after the Eclipse is out there and proves it's 'quality' the story wil be different.

CL

 

[FL450]

According to this article, there is a great deal of faith in the Eclipse 500...................read on...........

Eclipse 500 Order Book Tops 2,000; Early Market Demand for Revolutionary New Jet Exceeds Expectations; 1,357 Orders and 715 Options in Place


ORLANDO, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 9, 2002--Eclipse Aviation Corporation today announced that the order book for its lightweight, six-place, Eclipse 500 jet totals 2,072 aircraft. With 1,357 firm orders and 715 options, the company has secured more than $65,000,000 in non-refundable deposits for this breakthrough twinjet.

"Demand for the Eclipse 500 jet has been exceptionally strong, demonstrating the market creation and expansion made possible through not only the compelling purchase price, but more importantly, the low direct operating cost of this aircraft," said Vern Raburn, president and CEO of Eclipse Aviation. "To our knowledge, the Eclipse 500 order book is greater than that of any single civilian jet in the history of aviation."

Nonrefundable deposits secure all orders for the Eclipse 500 jet. Each order includes payment schedules that increase the amount of the customer's total deposit as the aircraft reaches certification and delivery milestones.

Included in the order book are deposits from individual customers for the purchase of 530 owner-flown aircraft.

First customer deliveries are scheduled to occur in January 2004. To date, approximately the first two-and-a-half years of production aircraft have been sold-out. Prospects interested in making a deposit toward the purchase of an Eclipse 500 today will be granted a mid-2006 delivery position. Fleet customer aircraft delivery commitments extend through 2008.

The Eclipse 500 is a six-person jet aircraft that sells for $837,500 (in June 2000 dollars). At this price, it costs approximately a quarter of today's small jet aircraft. The Eclipse 500 flies at 355 knots and can travel 1300 nautical miles (about the distance between Boston and Miami) at a cost of approximately 56 cents a mile to operate.

Production Rates

Eclipse Aviation expects to deliver approximately 140 aircraft in 2004, 500 aircraft in 2005 and 900 aircraft in 2006. At its full production rate, which the company expects to reach in 2007, Eclipse will be able to manufacture an estimated 1,500 aircraft per year.

High volume production is achieved by using innovative manufacturing practices including the use of friction stir welding, precisely machined parts, a modular approach to assembly, and modern supply chain management that leverages outsourced components.

Friction stir welding is a joining process that replaces 60 percent of the rivets in the Eclipse 500. The FAA approved the friction stir welding process specification in May 2002.

About Eclipse

Eclipse Aviation is in the business of designing, certifying and producing modern, affordable jet aircraft that will revolutionize the transportation market. The company is applying revolutionary propulsion, manufacturing and electronics systems to produce aircraft that cost less than one quarter of the price of today's small jet aircraft, will be significantly safer and easier to operate than those of today, and have the lowest cost of ownership ever achieved in a jet aircraft.

The goal of Eclipse is to bring the word "personal" into aviation, making it possible for commercial air passengers to move directly between cities on a quick, affordable and convenient basis. It will also allow pilot owners to enter the world of jet-powered aviation. Contact Eclipse at http://www.eclipseaviation.com.

Eclipse and Eclipse 500 are trademarks of Eclipse Aviation Corporation.

EDITORS' NOTE: The current Eclipse 500 deposit program can be viewed in the News Room at http://www.eclipseaviation.com.


09/09/2002 16:01 EASTERN

 

[Toploader]

You will not see Eclipse 500's at NJA for the same reason there will never be King airs or CJ's for pax use at NJA. The owners want super nice planes that look expensive.

The Ultra is not a Cadillac, but it is quite a leap upwards from the CJ's and Eclipse both.

Disclaimer: This post reflects MY opinions only, and it is not meant to flame any King air, CJ or future Eclipse drivers. No offense intended, please do not take any.

 

[FL450]

I wouldn't be so quick to rule them out. Remember the ab-initio program they are setting up to custom train pilots. Though on hold now, I firmly believe it will be brought to fruitation in the not too distant future. The Eclipse, or similar aircraft could fit nicely into this plan. Also remember that part of the strategy is to get customers to trade up into larger aircraft. If a smaller, efficient aircraft could train low time pilots and bring in more customers, why would it not be considered? Just something to think about.

Several years ago I would have laughed at the thought of BBJs on property, let alone Galaxys(G-200). Now I take nothing for granted. Aviation is not the same animal it once was and nothing surprises me anymore. Burt Rutan was interviewed on a "Boytoys" segment on the Discovery Channel. His insight into the future of aviation included small, efficient jets for point to point transportation. It would seem that he was on target.

BH has the desire to be the industry leader. They cannot remain that way without leading, nor without changing with the industry.

 

[FL450]

NetJets Places $300 Million Order with Cessna Aircraft Company;
Order Includes 50 CJ3 Business Jets, and Options for 50 More Aircraft

WOODBRIDGE, NJ September 9, 2002 -- NetJets® Inc. has ordered 100 new Cessna CitationJet 3 business jets and 12 Citation X aircraft from Cessna Aircraft Company for the rapidly growing NetJets fractional aircraft ownership program. Total value of the order and maintenance services is valued at over $300 million. Citation X deliveries will occur in 2004, and initial deliveries of the CJ3 will begin in 2005.

Richard Santulli, chairman and chief executive officer of NetJets, stated, "As the pioneer of fractional aircraft ownership, our strategy has been to continually offer NetJets owners the best light, mid-size and large cabin aircraft in the world. With the addition of the CJ3 and new Citation Xs to our fleet, which already includes Citation VIIs, Ultras, Encores, Bravos and Excels, we will keep offering our customers with a highly efficient and cost-effective way to travel.

"Our relationship with Cessna upon Cessna's demonstrated ability to develop and produce quality aircraft that meets the needs of our owners. And, Cessna's commitment to excellent product support coupled with its worldwide factory-owned service center network were key factors in our decision."

NetJets will take delivery of their 200th Citation in the fourth quarter 2002. Once deliveries are completed, NetJets will have over 350 Citations in their fleet, plus another 100 that are covered by options.

Cessna Chairman and CEO Russ Meyer said, "We are very proud that NetJets, with whom we have shared a long and mutually beneficial relationship, has chosen our new CJ3 for their fleet. With its outstanding performance, low operating cost, and most spacious and comfortable cabins in its class, we are confident that the CJ3 will quickly become a favorite among NetJets owners.

Not so far fetched after all. As I said, nothing surprises me at Netjets anymore.