Eclipse 500

[abev107]

Is this too good to be true? 6 place jet , 355kts, 1300 nm range....~$850k ???? Operates at 1/4 cost of king air? Everyone in America will have one for that price

With 200 orders I guess some people believe in it.

Any one have more info + or - on the Eclipse ?

 

[Rvrrat]

The Eclipse price & performance figures were based on a new design engine from Williams which has been ditched. I wouldn't expect the price to hold under $1m.

 

[toneal]

or go with a cessna mustang (sp)

 

[Beantown]

Whats up with the Maverick Jet that Hoover is endorsing? Is this thing a kit? The web site doesn't offer many answers. They make there own engines (750 lbs thrust). Maybe Eclipse can use there engines. Maybe not. -Bean

 

[wxman13]

Yeah, the Eclipse would be a great idea, if they didn't keep having significant problems cropping up. Part of the idea was that this revolutionary aircraft (and it is, at least conceptually) would spawn a new industry of "air taxis" that would be competitive with commercial airlines. You could fly them into any GA airport, and the airlines would be forced to redo their business models to keep up. Sound too good to be true? Maybe, especially the way things are going for Eclipse. Earlier this year (I think, may have been last year), they signed an agreement with a company called Nimbus Aviation that the latter would buy 1000 of these jets and create the first air taxi service. I don't know the details of the contract, but it meant that Eclipse had a guaranteed customer base, and the Nimbus was in on the ground floor of a seemingly lucrative business. In June, Eclipse terminated the contract on the grounds that Nimbus didn't/wouldn't have the capital to follow through. Well, there goes the air taxi idea, although Eclipse claimed to be looking into other agreements.

Then came the end of November when, as alluded to by Rvrrat, Eclipse terminated its agreement with Williams International, the jet engine manufacturer. The EJ22 was pretty pivotal to the plane, since it had a very high thrust-weight ratio, making it very efficient and affordable. The engine itself was doing fine in tests, the first Eclipse jet flew fine with two of them in July (the inaugural flight, by the way), but Eclipse claimed that Williams would be unable to manufacture enough engines to meet demand.

Eclipse says it's looking for another supplier, but until they find one (and presumably develop a new engine, since the EJ22 is proprietary to Williams Intl), the development process will probably be put on hold indefinitely. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one of these planes myself. Part of the draw is how affordable they're supposed to be for everything you get. Seriously, all-glass cockpit, rated for 1 PIC, IFR, FIKI certified, etc. etc. for under a million is a darn good deal. Yes, the price will invariably go up when and if they actually start producing these, but I'd wager to say that people will still buy them for $1.5 to $2 million. Granted, the purchasing demographic won't be as diverse as they're hoping for now, but they'd do alright.

I just hope that the idea doesn't completely die, because the idea really is a novel one, and until these two setbacks (the latter being much more significant, since a number of people besides Nimbus have agreed to buy one), things were progressing quite rapidly and smoothly for Eclipse.

My 2 cents,
Peter

 

[100LL... Again!]

There is a great synopsis on this whole situaion in a recent issue of FLYING magazine.

This is the upshot:

This airplane needs a miracle engine to meet it goals.

Everyone thought Williams would make the miracle engine.

Turns out Williams can't make miracle engines.

No one else make makes miracle engines.


If I remember correctly, the engine they thought they could build would have greater efficiency than the largest high-bypass engines on something like and Airbus or 777. Right. For under $1mil.

Now all future Eclipse owners will have to settle for an airplane that is much heavier, burns more gas, less useful load (probably), and has higher ref speeds.

Sigh. To good to be true, probably.

Anyone remember the BD-5 and -10?

 

[crash-proof]

Was at NBAA this year and saw the EJ-22 up close, as well as the Eclipse. All I could think about was how cute the engine looked, I swear you could pick it up and carry it under your arm. At 85lb., you probably could. And they looked like blowdryers on the plane.
You could feel there was so much hope by the Eclipse booth.

Good luck to them, I hope they find their miracle motor.

Regarding the Maverick jet, it started out as a kit, now they want to certify it, I think it will go for $1M. It's only 1/4 of the plane the Eclipse is, as it seats only 4 (including pilot) in a veeeery cramped cabin - it just looks like a kitplane. Regarding the turbines, they are taken from Bell Huey (sp) choppers and converted to turbojets. Seen it at sun n fun, loud as H$LL!!!!! Probably just as inefficient.
I think it will be more of a novelty plane, not for the masses.

 

[greg20]

SATS Program

The hypothetical 'air taxi' service for which the Eclipse 500 would possibly suit is called the NASA SATS (Small Aircraft Transportation System). I did some research looking into 'converting' a small G/A airport for SATS operations; Creve Coeur near STL in MO was the model airport and the proposed aircraft was the Eclipse 500. It was pretty interesting stuff. You can read more about the program at http://sats.nasa.gov/ .

 

[bart]

Its the engines my friend

The engine that they were to use (the FJ 22) did not develop the thrust necessary to meet the program goals. I would not expect to see an engine around to meet the program goals for another 10 to 15 years based on the trends in power to weight ratios. Were they to use the 33 they could make it happen, but cost would double and they would have to enlarge the overall design to accomodate increased fuel and wing.

The idea spawned a number of light jet concepts that will see the light of day in the next 3 to 5 years, but the Eclipse as we know it today will not be one of them.

 

[cjh]

All I could think about was how cute the engine looked, I swear you could pick it up and carry it under your arm. At 85lb., you probably could. And they looked like blowdryers on the plane.

Know what you mean. I had the same thought. Much like looking at a large RC. "How cute, almost like a real plane."

 

[fulcrum]

Know what you mean. I had the same thought. Much like looking at a large RC. "How cute, almost like a real plane."

i still hope that this miracle engine will be found or somebody will find a plane for the existing williams cute engine