eagle jet international

[jaybird]

" How much turbo-prop time do you have right now?"

Ummmm what does that have to do with anything? I earned a position with a respectable company who operates turbine aircraft. If I take my time and put in a few years hopefully I will get the chance to fly their Lears. Now, I'm not going to get ahead of myself here and say that I have a job yet, because I don't. I still have to make it through training which I hear is tough. However, I'm confident my CFI skills will help out in training since I have had hands on experience flying aircraft instead of playing with radios and raising gear handles.


Icywings, Icywings2, whoever, you're not going to win. You bought a job, there's no if's and's or but's about it. I spent a year instructing and now I'm going to move on. Point is, if you take the time to do it right, in the end you'll feel much better about yourself. I know I will.

 

[qwerty]

icywings,

you might want to mellow out a little bit. some people have the time and resources to find out who you are and make sure they don't have to share a cockpit with you........ever.

just a thought, but then again I'm just little poor cfi

 

[Icywings2]

Look, once again. I have NO PROBLEM with a CFI. I just didn't go that route. I think it is a very respectable way to earn flight time. It was just not for me. So if you can't understand that, I can't explain it anymore to you. If you think there is a problem, it is clearly with you not me.

Jaybird-- You know, this isn't worth the time anymore. You clearly aren't even reading what I write so there is no point in writing what won't be read. Good luck at Airnet!

The funny thing here is I simply tried to help out a person asking about how EJI worked. Then I get attacked by everyone because I didn't go the CFI route.

No one has offered a better way to build flight time then the way I did it, so I guess I made the right decision.

One thing you all HAVE been able to teach me, is to never reply to a thread and try to help someone without expecting to be attacked and now threatened. I thought we were all here trying to obtain the same goal I thought we were all here to help each other. I guess not and don?t think I?ll be back! You win!

 

[flx757]

Here's MY 2 cents worth:

I started out as a CFI...there wasn't any PFT in those days. Currently I am a B757 Captain/Check Airman and 15+ year ALPA member. Without re-hashing everything that has been said already, go over to the Pft thread....read what de727ups, checkessential and capt_zman have to say. They speak from experience.

And qwerty....get a little experience and seasoning before you start making threats.

 

[135pilot]

Hey guys ,this is getting way out of hand with all these negativity all i asked for was experiences from those who have tried out the program ,should i say 9/11 has made us bitter but hey, we are all trying to get the into the airlines it has gone from where you had a ppl and someone will give you employment and at the same time pay for the rest of your training to where you have to out perform the other candidates ,it is a killing field out there, you are in or out no two ways about it .
Please lets have a constructive discussion ,nobody has the right to shut down the other because they feel other wise .
Icywings ,thanks for the info .
I have a subquestion to the original one if previous experience in a scheduled operation is bad how come those who did it were given employment by airlines .
Thanks for your contribution.

135pilot

 

[Timebuilder]

No one has offered a better way to build flight time then the way I did it, so I guess I made the right decision.

Icy-
If you calm down for a minute, people are trying to tell you what the better way is to build time and experience. You have indeed made a decision. Other posters are offering a different perspective.

Many pilots with more experience than you and I put together and multiplied many times have been suggesting that the CFI route is a learning experience as much as a teaching experience. It reaches far beyond the ability to fly a flawless pattern in a 152. I didn't realize this until I had given my first 100 hours of dual, and by the time I reached 200 given I was certain I was still learning.

That's the value: the unanticipated insights.

 

[Icywings2]

TIMEBUILDER---

See, that is a very objective way to say this. THANK YOU!!!! I don't disagree with you. I am just an older guy and by the time I get my CFI, CFII and MEI, then instruct 500 hours it would be another 2 years. I also had to consider the 9.11 deal. Flight schools were shut down for a LONG time (at least where I live). So, that being said, for me this was the only way to go. If I were younger, no wife, no kids, no mortgage, etc... I would have done it.

I really was done with this thread until the post from Timebuilder.

while I am here ..... if you feel I have taken a job from someone that may be more deserving of it please go to this thread and read what I wrote there.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=22057#post22057

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T

This is an interesting discussion, actually. Made me think a little more about my experiences and P-F-T.

Read some of my other posts. I could have P-F-T'd ten years ago and gotten in with some commuter. I didn't do it because of pride. I felt that my quals deserved fair consideration. They certainly met or exceeded the published mins for most commuters. I felt that I was as worthy as any other applicant. Notwithstanding the scam potential, my pride would not let me stomach the idea of purchasing a job. Now, perhaps some P-F-T'er got the commuter job I wanted so dearly.

 

[Icywings2]

Well I hope no one did. What I do know is that anyone doing what I am, were never in a position to do so. The seat I sit in is not a seat where someone can be hired into regardless of pft.

 

[de727ups]

fast and cheap

"See guys, here is the deal. If you can tell me where a pilot with say 300-700 hours can go to build time cheaper then the way I am doing it and faster then the way I am doing it, please enlighten us all to your wisdom"

There is no cheaper or faster way....you picked the cheap way out. It's also a way that degrades the profession. A way that encourages managment to see pilots as a revenue source instead of the paid professionals we should be. A way that lacks integrity. Cheap is not always the best way....it's not a quality I'm interested in seeing in the pilots I share a cockpit with.

Icywings....pft schemes have been fought, in principal, by ALPA and professional pilots for years. You are very much going against the grain with your approach to career advancement. Like I said before.....if you interview with a major, someday, you'd best not jump up and down about what a great thing it was that you were able to buy all that right seat time in a metro. I'm just hoping you never make it to UPS.....

 

[bobbysamd]

Welllll . . . maybe not, but

I always thought it was age discrimination (I was 40-ish - 20-22-year-olds with the same quals as me were being hired), war, recession, and pilot oversupply caused by airline failures. I still believe these things. But, now, it's hard for me not to think that maybe someone bought a job that I wanted and worked hard for.

Thanks again, de727ups, for your excellent comments on this issue.

 

[Icywings2]

Don't worry, I don't look good in brown.

 

[de727ups]

Brown......

HA HA....none of us look good in brown. The clip-on ties are pretty cool though.....

 

[Icywings2]

hehe
Wow, I actually added some humor tonight. It has seemed like everyone hates me for what I am doing. I wish people could open up their mind and realize I am not doing the traditional PFT. It is really not the same. I don't get an automatic job at the end of this. I get to fly "X" amount of hours for "x" amount of money and then I am on the street looking for a job like everyone else. I just have more hours and more experiance. For some reasone that is not coming across.

 

[350DRIVER]

Folks,
This is kind of getting out of hand here...... The point is that as others have said these programs are going "against" the norms and the "right" way of doing things. This is not a personal attack at Icywings BUT cool your heals and respect the many others that ARE CFI's and that have gained the experience. At 23 years of age I find it funny that you keep mentioning "age". What is age other than a "meaningless" number.?-

Listen to these people since they probably have more time in the lav than most have TT.- It is just ridiculous that someone would post about how "great" these programs are and how you can "sneak" in the back door at a time when the industry is not doing extremely well and many "qualified" pilots are out of work and struggling to feed their families.....


Point being YOU made the choice to attend this program but I would not brag and put other pilots down.....

 

[Dieterly]

Eagle Jet...

Icy, lovely place you picked....

"Use free first officers for your transport aircraft. Reduce your operating expenses! We provide F/O's typed in the A/C of your choice. They will fly for your company NO SALARY or any other COMPENSATION, plus we pay a fee for your company.
Contact Stephen Hoinville at
EAGLE JET INTERNATIONAL AT mia.
TEL 1-305-278-0012
fAX 1-305-378-8925"

 

[Freight Dog]

First of all it is time to get a few things straight.

FREIGHT DOG, you clearly have never flown the Metro and you were only a PA-31 Captain. I use that word ?Captain? pretty loosely since it is only a piston engine that you don?t need anymore training in then a Piper Seneca. I have always been told the guys who get to play captain in the little planes are always the ones that think they Mr. Big Stuff. I know a few like you, I am sorry you are so insecure that you have to try sooooo hard to be ?the man? hahahahah, pathetic! Oh one more thing, you did get paid extra to have an FO, but it was $5 not $6. So when you are trying a weak attempt at putting someone down at least do it accurately.

FYI to everyone else, the PA-31 First Officers don?t do the same training as the Metro guys. See, all Metro guys are in school together going through the same training. Everything the Captain learns the First Officer has to learn. In addition, I got the highest grade in my class of 4 captains and 1 other FO. I don?t care what you think of my skill. That is not the point. However, if we are all so stupid and ?Freight Dog? is so smart, why did the 2 First Officers get the top 2 scores in all of our classes?

The Metro is not the same program as anything else there. We don?t watch videos to learn how to fly an airplane as they do in the BE-99. We use a Level B Simulator at Flight Safety, CPT and 1 week of ground school. I heard the PA-31 is like getting checked out in something you would rent at your local FBO. Oh, I heard this from a PA-31 Captain at AMF.

Icy.. first off... I kinda laughed at the Captain remark too, but what's funny is that is how AMF addresses ALL memos and mail sent to us whether you are flying Lance or a Chieftain or a Lear.
Oh, and I'm well aware of AMF training policy.

About insecurity? Dude... I'm WAY more secure in my flying ability because I had to deal with all that "good experience" you are getting WITHOUT being babysat, not to mention the small little fact that I GOT PAID! What a concept for a PROFESSIONAL PILOT! I thought only private pilots had to pay to fly. Nevermind the responsibility that comes with PIC decisions in the environment that AMF operates in... To quote 402driver, you can teach a monkey to operate switches.

I chose to leave AMF to get Part 121 experience. Had I stayed, I would have been your daddy in that Metro since all my classmates that are still there are in Metros and B1900's.

All that's being said to you is that you could have gotten the experience you want by working AND getting paid. I can't tell you how many guys I know that were CFI's and flew that 152 around the patch until 1200TT when they landed jobs flying Caravans for FEDEX feeder operations making as much as AMF Metro captains.

As for EJI, I can understand foreigners doing it because they can't legally work in this country... but YOU ARE AMERICAN!

Words of advice... lose the attitude... it will come up at jobs you interview for be it at majors or regionals. The fact that you are paying for time may potentially hose you down as anti-PFT generation from mid to late 90's gets up to hiring boards at majors and nationals

Friendly advice......


Aloha!

 

[Freight Dog]

Oh yeah...

2 guys with best written scores washed out in the sim at my airline.

Food for thought....

 

[Icywings2]

I didn't say just the writtnen.

Look, I am not trying to get a big fight with anyone here. I really was just trying to give info about what I had done to someone who asked.

You don't agree, that is fine. You agree, that is also fine.

We ALL did what we could to build our time the fastest and the cheapest to obtain the same goal.

I have not hurt anyone doing this program. I have not taken a job from someone and if anything I helped the resume of Captain by making it possible to add CRM to his resume.

The Metro is not the same as any other program at AMF. Not even the 1900. the Captain and the FO both fly the same amount of time. Some may say we just play with the radios, well that is dead wrong. We really don't in the Metro. Other airplanes I know that is not really true. Not the metro.

I don't think it is right to attack someone that is only trying to better themself when they hurt no one. Yes it is pretty crappy that AMF gets revenue like this, and I would have loved to be paid for it. There was just no way for a guy with 300 hours to get a job flying anything around here. So, I went that route.

Someone, here said something about age only being a number. I wish it were true. In the airlines it is important, due to retirement, to get to a major as young as possible. I think we all agree on at least that part.

I am tired of argueing about this.

Freight Dog-- You said you had friends that still fy the Metro. What base are they at? Drop me some first names and I'll see if I have flown with them.

 

[be99fr8dog]

"I don't think it is right to attack someone that is only trying to better themself when they hurt no one. Yes it is pretty crappy that AMF gets revenue like this, and I would have loved to be paid for it. There was just no way for a guy with 300 hours to get a job flying anything around here. So, I went that route. "


Icy. Here it is, you can get a job with 300 hours, it just isnt the job you want to do. Be honest with everyone, you are a cake eater. You dont want to make a sacrifice and pay your dues. We had one of you guys at one of our bases that logged 500+ hours as a "F/O" AMF hired the guy and he washed out of training. Point is, just because you log XXX hours as an F/O dosent mean that you are capable of flying the aircraft. The reason they dont put people into aircraft like the Metro, 1900, 99, Chieftan, 402, or even the lance with 300 hours is because they are not ready to fly those aircraft with that little experience.

It is called building block's of learning. You may be building a great house, but the foundation that it is built upon is not very strong. Do you know what happens when the foundation crumbles? The whole structure fails.

I have had EJI F/O's with me, I wont take them with me anymore, they are too much of a liability. If you really think that you are learning everything you need to know sitting in the right seat in cruise at FL230 you are wrong. That is the cake eating. There is a lot more to learn about flying than cake eating, it is called sacrifice.

You can get your training a few ways:

You can get quality cheap, but it wont be fast.
You can get quality fast, but it wont be cheap.

or

You can get it cheap and fast, but it wont be quality.