Eagle and the APA

[Draginass]

AMR is a follower in regards to the industry. They wont operate 70seaters at mainline unless everyone else is doing it. For this reason I would expect AMR to get a scope change from APA, find a third party to operate a token number of CRJ700s and/or EMB170s, then threaten AE and try to get lower payscales in exchange for the a/c. . . .

I don't think there is any possibility of relaxation of commuter clause scope. With the recent announcement concerning BA and IB, a much larger potential scope violation/concern has surfaced.

 

[Flyby1206]

I don't think there is any possibility of relaxation of commuter clause scope. With the recent announcement concerning BA and IB, a much larger potential scope violation/concern has surfaced.

Good, I would rather see the commuter clause stay exactly as it is instead of opening the gates for more flying for other carriers. Is APA mainly concerned about international route reductions for AA if there is antitrust immunity for AA/BA/IB?

 

[flyboyike]

Sorry, I don't understand. Can you be specific about what you're referring to as "this boat." Are your referring to finally being able to exercise the provision in our contract that restricts outsourcing of our jobs?

Also, arrogant in what regard? Protecting our jobs?

The boat in which you have to worry about your jobs going elsewhere in the first place. You wouldn't have that problem at all with a single list.

 

[Draginass]

The boat in which you have to worry about your jobs going elsewhere in the first place. You wouldn't have that problem at all with a single list.

Which jobs, and where would they go?

Since ALPA has several more years on it's contract, they are relatively inexpensive, so there's no reason for AA to let them out of the contract and combine with the APA. And the APA is very unlikely to take pay cuts to intice AMR to combine companies.

I see no chance of "one-list." AMR is a lot more likely to divest AE and let the other regionals compete for 50 seat feed.

 

[Rizzo]

AE may not be perfect, but if AMR drops them and contracts out to crap airlines like Mesa, you deserve any bad karma that heads your way.

 

[Draginass]

AE may not be perfect, but if AMR drops them and contracts out to crap airlines like Mesa, you deserve any bad karma that heads your way.

And it's not like AA is the "on-time" airline now.

 

[DGdaPilot]

I see no chance of "one-list." AMR is a lot more likely to divest AE and let the other regionals compete for 50 seat feed.

See that's the attitude I talked about.

AA guy: "Freaking Eaglets always whipsawing against us........ Let's make them whipsaw another regional, then AMR won't notice us with our pay and pensions."

Sounds like a smart move buddy. Let us know how it works out.

 

[Draginass]

See that's the attitude I talked about.

AA guy: "Freaking Eaglets always whipsawing against us........ Let's make them whipsaw another regional, then AMR won't notice us with our pay and pensions."

Sounds like a smart move buddy. Let us know how it works out.

I've heard a lot of whinging about this. What do you think the APA should do with it's leverage on the commuter exception? Remember you must consider:

1. AMR will have the final say on how it complies with the restriction . . . through either sale, shutdown, or in return for some other consideration to the APA. But they will, in the end, have to negotiate an agreement with the APA.

2. AE ALPA has several more years on it's contract giving it no leverage in the process. Any leverage would be bought at the APA's expense.

3. The APA will almost certainly not agree to take the hits in work rules and pay that AMR would demand to fold AE into AA. Plus the fight over seniority merger is something that APA members are very very tired of. In addition, AMR is likely to park a bunch of 50 seaters which could result in more furloughs while we already have 2000 APA members on furlough.

4. AE ALPA members almost certainly would not like the terms of a seniority integration that the APA would pose, even making the wild assumption that an agreement with AMR could be achieved. The disparity of compensation and workrules between AA and AE is too wide.

Unfortunately, the regional genie is out-of-the-bottle and I don't see any way of putting it back in, especially with other majors' weak scope restrictions. The best the APA can do is exercise it's leverage on the commuter clause provisions and get the best deal it can, whatever shape that comes it.

If you were the APA, what would YOU do, keeping in mind that the solution has to be generally supported by the membership??

 

[DGdaPilot]

Well I'm truly glad you've got it all figured out. Really. Like I said before, let us know how it works out.

I've already stated what I would do: ONE LIST.

And this is coming from a guy who has absolutely no desire to go to AA....ever. But in the long run, it is best for APA and EGL ALPA.

Think of it this way, AMR will always use regionals that feed AA to whipsaw you. Hmmm.....

 

[FOAgain]

Think of it this way, AMR will always use regionals that feed AA to whipsaw you. Hmmm.....

Exactly right. What's the difference between AE providing lift, or Skywest providing lift?

AE has always been the largest feeder for AA, therefore APA hates us. Fact is, they hate anyone else flying a single passenger with an AA ticket, but just lump them all in with AE.

History had shown the slow erosion of their flying. They can kick and scream all they want, but AMR gets what AMR wants. Period.

 

[Flyby1206]

If you were the APA, what would YOU do, keeping in mind that the solution has to be generally supported by the membership??

AMR isnt going to let APA get a new contract without some changes to scope. If I were APA I would agree to the scope proposal the company presented(76 seat a/c at commuter level), except stipulate that all flying must be performed by an AMR wholly owned company. This prevents further whipsawing between AE and other regionals. Clear up the cockpit crewmember floor language to state that if it falls below XXXX pilots then all 70seat+ a/c will be flown by pilots on the APA seniority list.

 

[FOAgain]

This prevents further whipsawing between AE and other regionals

APA couldn't care less about this.