"Duty time"

[avbug]

Is being "available" (on call) for a flight under FAR Part 135 at an hour's notice considered being "on duty"?

No. But it's not rest, either.

Since when has a principle operations inspector (POI) been assigned the authority to interpret regulation?

Since never. (it was a rhetorical, trick question). Not the option of the POI.

Duty time is time assigned by the employer as duty. Time not on duty is not necessarily rest.

Rest must be determined looking forward, not back. That is, one cannot simply state that one hasn't flown for 10 hours (or as applicable under given circumstances), and therefore have adequate rest. Rest time must be free from all company related duty. Rest time may include duty to another company, however.

Rest time must be free from all responsibility for work or duty. This does not preclude one from carrying a pager on one's own volition, however. For example, an employee who must have 10 hours of rest prior to duty has had no work assignments in the previous 24 hours. He elects to carry a pager in hope of picking up an assignment. The company does not require him or her to do so, but will call him and at least try the pager, if they can't get another crew. The pager rings, the pilot flies. He has not been required to carry the pager, and doing so has not interrupted his rest period.

If a pilot carries a cell phone or pager because he is on call, then it's not rest. If the pilot carries the cell phone or pager on his own and happens to accept a flight, but has no obligation to do so, then it can still be considered rest.

In a legal interpretation dated 10-05-87, the FAA Chief Legal Counsel noted "The Agency has interpreted "duty" as including actual work for a certificate holder or present responsibility for work if the occasion should arise."

If the company has no expectation that the employee must be available to fly, but the employee volunteers or agrees to do so without that responsibility, it does not interfere with a rest period. Carrying the pager at company request = no rest. Carrying the pager at pilot's volition with no company assignment or responsibility = no problem.

In the same legal interpretation cited above, the FAA Chief Legal Counsel also noted "The Agency has interpreted privosions substantively identical to 135.263(b) to the effect that a flight crewmember's receipt of one telephone call from his air carrier employer during a required rest period does not violate a regulation such as 135.263(b)."

In a different interpretation dated 12-9-99, the applicant submitted the following question: "During the crew's rest period, may the certificate holder initiate contact with the crew to assign a trip, which is scheduled to begin "after" the crew's rest period?"

The FAA Chief Legal Counsel responded: "A period of time during which a pilot has a present responsibility for work should the occasion arise, does not qualify as a rest period. The question you ask, however, concerns the situations where the pilot does not have a present responsibility to do anything for the air carrier, not even to answer the telephone or a pager. This pilot, when contacted, is merely being notified of a flight assignment to take place at the conclusion of his or her rest period. The pilot, during the rest period, was not obligated to be available to answer the telephone or a pager. Accordingly, a certificate holder may attempt to initiate contact with a flight crewmember to assign a trip scheduled to begin after the required rest period without violating 135.263(b)."

 

[igneousy2]

Is being "available" (on call) for a flight under FAR Part 135 at an hour's notice considered being "on duty"?

Thoughts?

Ask any 121 reserve pilot, this exact issue has changed 121 reserve duty forever.

In the 121 context which seems to have similar language as 135, Yes it's duty if you're on "reserve", You must be able to look back 24 hours and find a legal, appropriate rest period (free from ALL duty)

Also, the company may attempt to contact you ONCE during your rest period, after that it resets the clock.

Problem with 135 is you usually don't have an ALPA rep when you refuse to fly, my advice would be to call the POI and have the POI present if you get hauled onto the carpet...or at least record the conversation with your chief pilot.

Later

 

[Bandit60]

The real answer is NO. May not be what you want to hear but that is the truth.

 

[Bandit60]

Problem with 135 is you usually don't have an ALPA rep when you refuse to fly, my advice would be to call the POI and have the POI present if you get hauled onto the carpet...or at least record the conversation with your chief pilot.

Don't forget that ALPA is partially to blame for many airline pilots for being out of work today. I dont think having a ALPA rep would be a very good idea. I would consider that a CLM(career limiting move)

 

[GogglesPisano]

Don't forget that ALPA is partially to blame for many airline pilots for being out of work today. I dont think having a ALPA rep would be a very good idea. I would consider that a CLM(career limiting move)

ALPA is also the reason some 777 CA's still make $300,000/year. We could throw in the reason that there are no cockpit cameras, CVR's can't be given to the media, airline pilots can't be forced to work over 16 hours, companies can't call you more than once when you're on "rest," cabotage hasn't overrun the domestic labor force, and twenty year captains and furloughed out-of-seniroty in favor of "company men" keeping their jobs, and our interests are represented on Capitol Hill.

 

[vetteracer]

We just went through this very issue.

I fly for a hospital, king air 200 medevac.

We have 12 pilots and 2 aircraft. We use to work 24 hours on call. We had 20 minutes to be to the airport and could be at home in bed or whatever we wanted. We would work as many as 5 – 24 hour shifts. We would not have any dedicated rest time unless we flew. We would stay on call, and if we did not get another flight for 10 hours, we were assumed to have had our rest. We use pagers and 2 way radios.

Our local POI changed and investigated this practice and the matter went to the top at the FAA. Took about 3 months.

The FAA ruled that anytime a pilot is making himself available to fly, IE, pager time, or in a position to receive call, or be called out, THIS IS DUTY TIME. So the only time that was considered rest time by the feds was that time the company could not call you for a flight or flight duty.

So we went to 12-hour shifts.

The POI explained that if an accident or incident to place, the investigation would note how long we had been on call and that we did not have our required rest, and therefore are breaking the regs, and that this is ultimately the pilot’s responsibility. He is a pretty cool guy and I really got the feeling that he was looking out for us. It forced the company to hire 3 more pilots to make the schedule work.

Mark

 

[rettofly]

Re: Re: "Duty time"

Ask any 121 reserve pilot, this exact issue has changed 121 reserve duty forever.

In the 121 context which seems to have similar language as 135, Yes it's duty if you're on "reserve", You must be able to look back 24 hours and find a legal, appropriate rest period (free from ALL duty)

Later

Under FAR 135, "Rest Time" is simply the required 10 hours (or more, if max flight time is exceeded) following the completion of a duty period.
Once that required period is over, the company may call or page for the next assignment regardless of the time of day.
Legal? yes. Safe? Not if you get called about the time you'd be hitting the rack.

 

[English]

We just went through this very issue.

I fly for a hospital, king air 200 medevac.

We have 12 pilots and 2 aircraft. We use to work 24 hours on call. We had 20 minutes to be to the airport and could be at home in bed or whatever we wanted. We would work as many as 5 – 24 hour shifts. We would not have any dedicated rest time unless we flew. We would stay on call, and if we did not get another flight for 10 hours, we were assumed to have had our rest. We use pagers and 2 way radios.

Our local POI changed and investigated this practice and the matter went to the top at the FAA. Took about 3 months.

The FAA ruled that anytime a pilot is making himself available to fly, IE, pager time, or in a position to receive call, or be called out, THIS IS DUTY TIME. So the only time that was considered rest time by the feds was that time the company could not call you for a flight or flight duty.

So we went to 12-hour shifts.

The POI explained that if an accident or incident to place, the investigation would note how long we had been on call and that we did not have our required rest, and therefore are breaking the regs, and that this is ultimately the pilot’s responsibility. He is a pretty cool guy and I really got the feeling that he was looking out for us. It forced the company to hire 3 more pilots to make the schedule work.

Mark

This is what many in the 135 world have been waiting for. But, you say the FAA "ruled that anytime a pilot is making himself available to fly, IE, pager time, or in a position to receive call, or be called out, this is duty time"... do you have a copy of this ruling? Was it an interpretation you are referring to? Do you have anything we can reference (a weblink, a letter sent to your company, anything) that we can use to back up this position with other 135 operators? Who was the top FAA official that was involved?

Thanks for the info.

 

[avbug]

The FAA ruled that anytime a pilot is making himself available to fly, IE, pager time, or in a position to receive call, or be called out, THIS IS DUTY TIME. So the only time that was considered rest time by the feds was that time the company could not call you for a flight or flight duty.

The "FAA ruled"? Where is this written, and where is the statement of policy by either the Administrator or the FAA Regional or Chief Legal Counsel?

This topic has already been addressed by presentation of the legal statements by the Administrator via the Chief Legl Counsel's office. Why is it still being discussed?

The POI explained that if an accident or incident to place, the investigation would note how long we had been on call and that we did not have our required rest, and therefore are breaking the regs, and that this is ultimately the pilot’s responsibility.

No finding of fault will be scheduled unless you're foolish enough to write a statement that you've been on call. If you haven't flown, and have no duty to respond to a flight, then you are at rest, period. End of story.

If the company can call you, and you have the option to say no, then you are not on call, on reserve or anything else. This has already been discussed, complete with legal interpretations, clearly.

If the company assigns you to duty, you are on duty. If the company does not assign you to duty, but expects you to be available to take calls or respond, and you agree, the you are not on duty, but are not receiving rest.

If the arrangement is that you have a telephone, and the company calls you when they go down the list of pilots, and you have no obligation to answer the phone or go fly, then you can be at rest. This is the typical arrangement, and it's legal.

Post your interpretation or legal statement of policy, as received by your POI from the "top of the FAA."

 

[vetteracer]

I should elaborate a little more on the subject.

Our 135 certificate is operated by our hospital, not an FBO. The hospital has 2 KA-200 and a Bell 232. Operating on 2 separate 135 certificates. So above the DO, we have hospital management and thier attorneys.

To make a long story short, we were operating 3 crews per day, 2 on 12-hour shifts and one crew on a 24 hour shift. This came into question with the POI after some questions were raised about the incident in Alaska where the local FSDO and the national FAA got involved.

We had similar concerns so the issue was investigated. Since we are scheduled to be on CALL, and if weather permits, we have to accept the flight. There is not an option of saying, well, I am not in the mood to fly, call someone else.

The issue was raised by the local FSDO, (Rapid City) and they pondered the issue and stated that we were in violation, since pager time, in our case, was duty time. They considered since we had set times, and set days that we were to be on call to accept a flight, that was duty time.

The hospital came back with there legal interpretation, and stated that since we were on demand, and the pilots may be able to get their rest if no flights were called out, then we had the appropriate rest. The Local FSDO guys argued that since we were standing by the pager, be it at home in bed, that was duty time. There were no provisions set aside for specific rest time, and rest time in-defacto was not appropriate.

The hospital lawyers then prepared to obtain a legal interpretation at the national level. 3 days later our schedule was changed.

This is certainly a case by case issue, but in our case, this is how it played out. Now, if you are say, on call, and have the opportunity to reject a flight, then this may be a different deal.



Quote
"No finding of fault will be scheduled unless you're foolish enough to write a statement that you've been on call. If you haven't flown, and have no duty to respond to a flight, then you are at rest, period. End of story."

That is true, except the only thing they would have to do is look at the schedule in the pilot lounge and they would be able to see when I was scheduled to be on call. You may be misunderstanding our operation. We are scheduled to be on call at certain times. In the past this could have been 5 days in a row, 24-hour shifts, so 120 hours in a row. With the only scheduled rest occurring when we actually flew. We are given pagers and we can do what ever we want as long as we can be to the airport in 20 minutes.

Quote
"If the company can call you, and you have the option to say no, then you are not on call, on reserve or anything else. This has already been discussed, complete with legal interpretations, clearly."
WE do not have the option to turn down a flight based on duty time, unless we have already flown trips. In the past our "duty time" did not start until we were paged. This was the basis for the argument. We were on call, without the option of saying no because we were tired, we were expected to be ready to start a 14-hour duty day at any time we were on call.




Quote
"If the company assigns you to duty, you are on duty. If the company does not assign you to duty, but expects you to be available to take calls or respond, and you agree, the you are not on duty, but are not receiving rest."

Exactly, so if we were on call, but not on duty, for 120 hours, flight or not flight, there was no dedicated rest time unless we were activated on a flight, at which time our duty day started.



Quote
"If the arrangement is that you have a telephone, and the company calls you when they go down the list of pilots, and you have no obligation to answer the phone or go fly, then you can be at rest. This is the typical arrangement, and it's legal."

This would not apply to us, since we are the dedicated crew and expected to fly.

Mark