Duty Time Limitations Question

jtf

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I have heard that scheduling at a particularly crappy regional has been forcing pilots to fly over the 16 hour duty day by making them go over 16 hours for "part 91 ferry flights" and saying that since they are not 121 passenger flights, it is legal and that they have to do it- mostly to FOs on probabation who can be easily fired and intimidated if they try to say they are fatigued. It sounds kind of fishy to me- I don't think it is legal, but I fully admit I don't know for certain. Anybody know for certain and have the reg. number so that they can be quoted to scheduling and flight managers who are doing the intimidating?
 

sf3boy

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I dont' know for sure if it is legal or not, but I won't do it for these reasons:

1. While pulling into the gate, you get marshalled into a tug. The FAA is going to have a field day. The airline that you are employeed at will suddenly forget your name and lose the recorded phone call they made to make you fly.

2. If they are paying me, then I am on duty. Every book I have states no more than 16 hours of duty. If they don't pay, then I will be as far away from an airport as possible.
 

"TheBigPicture"

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1. There are no duty time requirements. Only rest requirements. (24hr lookback).

2. Part 91 flights prior to 121 flights must be taken into consideration for the purposes of determining whether or not rest requirements have been meet.

Part 91 flights following 121 do not count since all 121 flying has been completed.

For a more detailed interpretation see FAR 121.470 and 121.471.

Hope this helps and don't fly it if you're too tired
 

Guitar Guy

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Don't ever believe that you can't call yourself fatigued - that can most certainly get you killed, which is worse than being fired. The captain should step in for a probationary co-pilot and make sure that if either of you are fatigued, that the plane does not move.
 

FreedomAList

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Don't forget though, that the Part 91 flying you do will be counted against you when you start flying 121 again. Treat it like commerical flying on the side that goes against your minimums (30/7, mothly, yearly, rest requirments, etc.)
 

Shed Driver

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You guys have got it hard in the USA.

Our flight and duty limits down under are 11 hours max rostered, which can be extended to 12 if the crew agrees. Max 8 hours flying per duty.
Crews must have a minimum of 9 hours between duty if the rest starts before 10 pm and sigin on is after 6am. If this is not the case crews must have 10 hours off.

At some of the larger regionals the union have negotiated max 6 sector days for their pilots.
 

atpcliff

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Hi!

The 91 flying after you are done with your 121 or 135 crew duty day is very common among freight carriers, and is perfectly legal, though not always safe. At my co., if we tell them we're too tired, they say OK and figure out an alternate plan. I don't know how they react at that regional.

-135 regs, with special attention to flight duty/rest times have been re-written. I don't know how long it will take until they're finalized. I believe that the -91 tail-end ferry has been eliminated, but the re-write hasn't been published, so I'm not positive.

Cliff
GRB
 

Dutch

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While it may be legal I don't think extending beyond a 16 hour day is smart. The Regional I work for has tried this with me and I refused (while a probie). The argument that I made was contractual, not based on the FAR's. Our part one states that we operate under the provisions of 121 and does not address part 91 ferry flights. The crew schedulers are trained to follow the regs and have little understanding of the contract. Once I spoke with the supervisor the issue was dropped as he understood the requirements of our contract and not just the regs. FLY THE CONTRACT.
 
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