Durango sues United over Brasilia servic

[Marko Ramius]

Plus, from what I remember hearing somewhere, doesnt GL only dispatch Method I (terrain clearance), and doesnt use Method II (driftdown) at all (I heard that at Air Cheese, not sure how accurate that actually is).

I'm not sure what you call Lakes' dispatch method-maybe Method 1.5? They aren't approved for driftdown in the D model, which in most quadrants outside of northwestern Iowa would mean no Method II, but of course it's not that simple. They break the route into segments and give each segment a "diversionary airport". The DEN-DRO route is usually Rocki3.HBU...DRO and they'll put something like, "diversionary airport east of HBU is DEN, DRO west of HBU." Of course the term "diversionary airport" isn't found anywhere in 121.191 a1 or a2, but that doesn't matter does it? Along those lines, the reg says that you must use the approved enroute net flight path data to figure your performance capability. They don't have driftdown charts, only SE service ceiling and SE climb gradient charts. The former is far more liberal than the latter, so you can guess which they use. Based on what the charts actually represent and the conditions used to derive them it would make more sense to use the gradient charts, but even then it should be method I not II. Of course there is no method to calculate adverse winds or the like either as required by Method II. Bottom line, act like you don't know what any of this means during any oral or examination and everything will be OK!

 

[dispatchguy]

I wonder how Eagle will do with there E-135's out of DRO? I guess will find out in 4 days..

Even though I am with EGF, I wouldnt know as I only work the Caribbean No driftdown down there...

 

[IFLYASA]

Only 10 people on a Brasilia? Seems like the only way that's possible is to max out the fuel. That's still around 5 hours. On our ER's at ASA, with 3 hours of fuel we can still take 30 passengers with full bags using winter weights.. Usually it's zero-weight limited by then which reduces it down to 29 passengers.

 

[FlyingSig]

On our ER's at ASA, with 3 hours of fuel we can still take 30 passengers with full bags using winter weights..

Just curious what the ratio of ER's to non ER's is at ASA in DFW? I commute DFW-IAH and it seems that the max load is usually around 25 pax on a good day and on weather days I've seen it restricted to 19 but usually in the 20-25 range (can't imagine where the alt was that day...but I got left behind).

 

[328dude]

The Dork is hardly ever weight restricted. I've seen it maybe three times when the weather was crap, 100 knot head wind for a 2 hour 15 minute flight. Then we maybe need to get rid of 2 people. I like the Brasilla but the Dork out performs it greatly. True's out at 330 to 340, 31000 ft cruise altitude and climbs like a home sick angel ex. Like I said, nothing against the brasilla but they should have kept the Dork service.

Guess seven of the dorks are comming to PSA from Air Whisky.
Maybe that's why they pulled them out.

 

[AWACoff]

IFLYASA,
Take a look at your APU charts. You will quickly see how an
Emb-120 ER (or is it ATF???) will only carry 10-15 people on a moderately hot day out of the mountains. I've had restrictions of 20 out of Lansing on a bad weather day (ie hot or alternates). All summer long out of ORD we took weight hits and restrictions. 26,433 just doesn't work outside of winter. She was a good honest plane but she ain't no truck. Now if I could only get my hands on one of those sweatshirts with the Brasilia on front and the slogan "I do 300kts, try and catch me!" on the rear. RC had one when I went through training in '99.

 

[waterski]

300 Kts big deal I can do that on my Jetstream 4100

 

[328dude]

yea, ok

 

[AWACoff]

The sweatshirt was a "bit" more popular when the Brasilia was the fastest commercial turboprop. Obviously it has been caught by the Dork and a few others...whoopdeedoo. It's still a pretty schweeeet sweatshirt

 

[328dude]

AWA:


Says there you flown both, so getting back to the original question is the Brasilla I wise choice over the Dork for Durango and other flying?

Like I said, nothing against the Brasilla.
Is it a safe assumption to say that the Dork outperforms the Brasilla. Just curious cause I don't know anything about the brasilla.

 

[ifly4food]

IFLYASA,
Take a look at your APU charts. You will quickly see how an
Emb-120 ER (or is it ATF???) will only carry 10-15 people on a moderately hot day out of the mountains. I've had restrictions of 20 out of Lansing on a bad weather day (ie hot or alternates). All summer long out of ORD we took weight hits and restrictions. 26,433 just doesn't work outside of winter. She was a good honest plane but she ain't no truck. Now if I could only get my hands on one of those sweatshirts with the Brasilia on front and the slogan "I do 300kts, try and catch me!" on the rear. RC had one when I went through training in '99.

ASA doesn't operate the E120s like Lakes did. We don't use APU charts, just Jepp runway analysis. All takeoff and ldg data comes from flip cards.
Also, ASA somehow got an exemption to count "carryon" bags as 10 lbs each, which GREATLY helps the weights. So if you check your Rollerboard, it's 25lb, but if you put it on the rack, it's 10lb. Guess where most of them go. Don't ask me how we get away with that.
Also, most ASA fliers have never flown past a mountain much higher than 5000'. They think Charleston WV and Roanoke VA are "special" airports. These guys would crap if they had to fly into HDN or DRO. They have no idea.
We don't have more than 8 or 10 ERs and the typical max in the RT is 28/48 on the best days in ATL flatland. Go to ROA in an RT in crappy wx and we take 20-25. ASA policy is to take max bags and bump pax, unlike Lakes who would arrive at IMT at 11PM with 30 pissed off pax and no bags.
Also, and most sadly, ASA doesn't go as fast as we did at Lakes. The highest I've seen filed is 280kt. ASA believes in pulling the power back and saving the engines. We cruise about 10% lower Tq than we did at Lakes. I miss seeing 310KT filed on the flight plan.
See Youuuuuuuuuu!

 

[IFLYASA]

"Just curious what the ratio of ER's to non ER's is at ASA in DFW? I commute DFW-IAH and it seems that the max load is usually around 25 pax on a good day and on weather days I've seen it restricted to 19 but usually in the 20-25 range (can't imagine where the alt was that day...but I got left behind)."


I believe ASA has around 47 Brasilia's left with 12 being sold, or if not already sold. "Supposedly" they will keep around 14 in DFW and 14 in ATL. I'm guessing we have around 10-12 ER's, just a wild guess. Any Brasilia with a new paint job is an ER. There are a few old "Burger King" colors that are ER's. If you commute and see a new paint job Brasilia, there is no reason you shouldn't get on out of IAH. Also, the word is that the remaining RT's that ASA keeps will be converted over to the ER's. There's nothing more that I hate is to leave jumpseaters because of weight limitations. They should have done these conversions a long time ago.

 

[IFLYASA]

Well there's no doubt that the "dork" outperforms the Brasilia. You are comparing 1980's to the 1990's. The Brasilia was the King in the 80's. It seems most turbo-props will be extinct in the years to come for the regionals.

 

[AWACoff]

IFLYASA and Ifly4food,
I apologize. I didn't realize you guys used different numbers. I guess Jeppesen isn't neccasarily Jeppesen when it comes to charts. As ASA said, the Dork outperforms the E120. Of course the Brasilia is by far the sexier looking of the two. I'm pretty sure the Brasilia outperforms the C182 I'm the captain of now....doh.