Dumb Question

[avbug]

310,

If that's true, I've made the accidental mistake of handstarting ("propping") more than a few fuel injected engines.

It's still possible. Then again, if your battery is dead, you need to reevaluate what you're doing starting the engine in the first place...where are you planning on going with an electrical system failure?

There exist a few occasions when this is necessary; stuck where there is no help, and you need to get to help. Certainly in airplanes that lack electrical systems...a no-brainer.

However, if you have an inoperative electrical system and a dead battery, and prop the airplane you are flying an unairworthy aircraft. That should be a red flag right there. It's one thing to develop a problem enroute and get to where you need to be for repairs. It's another matter entirely to take aloft an airplane with a known problem.

 

[310]

I am not advocating doing this and have never- just stateing what i thought was the obvious to the new guy that posted the thread- Question avbug; how do you get a injected engine going without the boost pump- I'm not disputing it, but want to know.Was it a high wing so you get a little gravity provided fuel pressure?

 

[avbug]

Advocate away...there's nothing wrong with handpropping an airplane. Advocate teaching it...nobody should complete even a private pilot certificate without receiving hands-on training in hand-propping operations.

Many of the fuel injected engines I've hand started have been high wing airplanes, yes. However, many fuel injected airplanes also utilize a wobble pump or manual primer, and all one needs is enough prime to get the engine to fire. After that, fuel flow is per the engine driven fuel pump. No problem.

 

[GopherEvertt?]

Just remembered a lecture from the 4th grade. The teacher was talking about electricity. Upon describing a magneto, he said, "Does anyone know why it is called a magneto?" Answer: "Because it has a MAGnet, and the way it works is NEATO!" Well, it seemed funny when you're 10 !

 

[RockyMnt1]

Dumb question

I was involved in hand propping a C-421 engine (bad starter). Like Avbug said, we primed it a whole bunch and pulled it through a couple of times and it was just shear luck that it caught. Just about lifted the mechanic off the ground and if it didn't catch on the first try we were going to forget about it. The prop didn't seem to move very far so watch those prop blades!!

I tried to hand prop a C-310 engine (another bad starter) and it didn't budge. Had to get a new starter for that one.

 

[RockyMnt1]

Hand Propping

I did see a picture (I think that it was in Africa) of a C-310 that was hand propped by wraping a rope around the prop hub and blades. A bunch of people held onto the rope and ran when given the signal. Sort of like a giant recoil starter (only no recoil). I cetainly would not encourage this type of maneuver, but when it is called for it can be done.

 

[Singlecoil]

I had a guy hand prop a 207 once with a Continental IO-520-F engine. You won't find me handpropping any airplane, especially one with a three bladed prop, but he wanted to get to town, so there we were.
Worked just fine, but I'm not sure I would do it again.

 

[avbug]

I handpropped 206's and 207's quite a few times while working out in the back country. Sometimes it seemed it was a futile exercise, and others, it wasn't so bad. Several times I couldn't get one started, but generally it worked fine. Same for other light airplanes, from Cessna 182's and 310's to aircraft without starters or electrical systems, such as J-3's, etc.

Rope starting can be done, but it can also be hazardous to the airplane, and potentially to those doing the starting. This trick was used on occasion in large radial recips, using a truck or winch for the starter, with the rope wrapped alternately in and out of the prop blades around the hub. One had to be very careful about bending a rod due to hydraulic lock, and this was done by pulling the engine through by hand...typically quite a few revoloutions.

What radial engines were referred to previously that had only one mag and one distributor?

 

[V1 cuts R fun]

master switch gets the battery hot to utilize the starter, usually those **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** bendix starters that jump out and never catch. Anyways, after the engine is started and your mags work correctly then the engine continues to run. Thats what the magnetos are for.

 

[katanabob]

Avbug: The one mag/one distributor engines I have worked on were Jacobs engines. (The so-called 'shaky Jake') (Found most often in Cessna 195's and Beech Staggerwings)
I am sure there were another couple, but I can't remember what at the moment.