Doug takes a shot at Dave

[Spectre]

Nice to be so confident...your lack of industry experience is showing. A great shortcoming of many of the pure military background guys at JB is that they believe everything they are told. Their 3,4 or 5 years of airline experience has shown them the way everything works- after all its just been airline biz as usual, right? Get back to me in 10 or 15 years when you have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

By the way, Let's do the math.

The most senior 320 Captain at JB working 85 hours makes:
(85*126)+(15*63)*12=$139860 Salary and total.
(0) Retirement

The most junior 320 Captain at UAL working 85 hours makes:
(85*126)*12= $128,520 Salary
($128,520*.15)=$19,278 Retirement (not taxed)
$147798 Total "Quote

The most senior Captain on the A-320 at JetBlue has around 6 years on the property. How many United Captains are there on the A-320 who only have 6 years on the property? You're not comparing apples to apples here. Realistically, I don't think you have anyone who's a Captain at United with less than six years on the property. I think it would take 10-12 years to make Captain on the A320 at United. Even now, the Captain upgrades to the 320 at JetBlue is around 3-4 years. Realistically, if you want to compare total earnings, compare what a 6 year United FO makes against a 6 year Capt at JetBlue who was hired on day one as a Captain!

 

[Green]

I find it terribly dis-heartening to listen to pilots take pleasure in the downfall of legacy carriers. Why would anyone be happy that widebody captain pay has been cut in half? It just puts pressure on LCC carrier salaries. How can we justify making 140k at the LCC airlines when NWA/UAL/Dal can get their 777/747 captains to work for the same amount. It just means we have a pay cut on the horizon. Come on guys/gals we're all in this together. We should be fighting management as a unified front instead of fighting over the scraps.


Anyone catch that recent Wall Street Journal article on Airline Pilot Pay? The AVERAGE air traffic controller salary (160k) is higher than ANY airline pilot outside of SWA makes if you factor in the new DAL and NWA ta's. That is downright depressing. We should be talking SOS type job actions, not trashing each other.

 

[32LT10]

I find it terribly dis-heartening to listen to pilots take pleasure in the downfall of legacy carriers.

Green,

You make a very good point. This is exactly what has happened with the Express carriers versus the majors. Shortly after 9/11 when the company was struggling and giving all the mainline flying the RJ's I heard more than one Express pilot say that "you guys just priced yourself out of the market" and various other versions of it is your own fault that this is happening to you. You can still see this in many of the messages from the crowd that flies for the color coded company.

What is ironic is that once the company was finished rumaging through our pockets they took on the RJ guys. ACA and ARW were the two that got priced out of the market in the UAX arena. All of a sudden they got the same treatment we did. Look at what is happening at NWA. All the Mesaba pilots are upset and crying in their travelpro's that the NWA pilots are giving them the short shrift. None of these guys were crying foul when management was pawning off mainline jobs to them, all because they were the lowest bidder at the time.

 

[JBPA]

The most senior Captain on the A-320 at JetBlue has around 6 years on the property. How many United Captains are there on the A-320 who only have 6 years on the property? You're not comparing apples to apples here.

I disagree. I think he is comparing apples to apples. It doesn't matter that we don't have any 12 year captains. We have a 12-year payscale and that is what was used in his comparison.

Realistically, if you want to compare total earnings, compare what a 6 year United FO makes against a 6 year Capt at JetBlue who was hired on day one as a Captain!

It's funny, no, I mean really sad that a few years ago you wouldn't be able to use this comparison since a year 6 FO made more than a JB CA. A lot more. How 'bout compare a year 6 UA FO with a year 6 JB FO. Oh wait, we don't have any year 6 FO's (we will eventually). Our 156-seat CA pay is low. Bottom line. At least we have good retirement/benefits. Oh wait.....

My point to my ranting is that I personally wouldn't be trying to justify/compare our pay (low) with anybody elses. Especially a year 6 UA FO. Before the legacy managements raped their workforces, they were making way more than us (even most FO's over year 3/4 more than our CA's). Way more. If you think our low pay rates had nothing to do with their current pay scales than you are living in a vacuum. And while I'm not a doom and gloom guy, I don't think that our rates are going to go up anytime soon (we certainly don't have any say in the matter).

The only 'vote' we have on enhancing our compensation package is to 'vote' with our feet.

 

[Big Slick]

He is trying to fire up the troops. This is just what Tony Saprano did the other night. He picked a fight with a younger guy - just to show who was da boss. You got a problem with that?

SWO/FO only watches the Sopranos so he can see Vito Spatafore vacation in New Hampshire.
http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/cast/character/vito_spatafore.shtml

 

[Patriot328]

There is no furlough policy because we don't furlough, never have and never will, jerk. We can send the entire work group to minimum hours and keep everyone, saving on premium pay (just like we did after 9/11 for a month) because there is no union. A typical captain here on the bus makes more than most equivelent bus captains at UAUA with premium pay, so stop dragging down the industry pay!!!! And by the way, blue is spelled, err, ahh, B L U E... I think JBLU has the chemistry to make it all the way, because we have the best group of pilots around, many of whom use to wear your colors, idiot!!!

I can't believe I'm nearly defending 32LT cuz quite frankly I think he's an arsehole. Being an arsehole does not invalidate his inqueries, however.

Blue Bayou, your whole "there is no policy because we have never furloughed" it quite simply the saddest thing I've ever read coming from a professional pilot. Do you really believe that B6 is totally immune from furloughs? There is no conceivable plan that would end in the furlough of your fellow pilots. What if it's the 320 that is fat on pilots? Surely there are 190 pilots that are junior to the 320 pilots.. who hits the streets, no matter how temporary...?

As far as your slamming your d*ck on the table to measure out who gets paid more, just remember that everyone else had to shrivel up to your size. That is why you are "competitive".

Regards (and I do mean that.. I have more friends at JB than any other company.. I mean no ill will, just a view of the reality of the situation).

 

[savin47]

I can't believe I'm nearly defending 32LT cuz quite frankly I think he's an arsehole. Being an arsehole does not invalidate his inqueries, however.

Blue Bayou, your whole "there is no policy because we have never furloughed" it quite simply the saddest thing I've ever read coming from a professional pilot. Do you really believe that B6 is totally immune from furloughs? There is no conceivable plan that would end in the furlough of your fellow pilots. What if it's the 320 that is fat on pilots? Surely there are 190 pilots that are junior to the 320 pilots.. who hits the streets, no matter how temporary...?

As far as your slamming your d*ck on the table to measure out who gets paid more, just remember that everyone else had to shrivel up to your size. That is why you are "competitive".

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We are guaranteed 70 hours for the duration of our contracts. Seniority rules. The reason no is responding to the questions is that most of us have left this site.

 

[32LT10]

We are guaranteed 70 hours for the duration of our contracts. Seniority rules. The reason no is responding to the questions is that most of us have left this site.

How can you respond yet be gone at the same time? If you read and respond does that constitute leaving the forum? There were plenty of JBLU pilots commenting on this issue yet none answered the question. The only attempt at an answer was from someone claiming it will never happen.

If the hard times come and the company puts everyone on 70 hours to save jobs that would be a first that I have ever heard of in the industry. If it happens then kudos to you guys for the effort. However, I do wonder if it would actually happen that way in the end.