DOT fines airlines for overnight stranding in Minnesota

[johndog]

Actually, it seems to me that the ExpressJet and Mesaba both did what they did because they were afraid to incur the wrath of The Blueberry Police. Given the frightening amount of power given to those waddling idiots and their tendency to redefine their own rules and methods on a near-daily basis, I'm inclined to look at this mess from a slightly different angle:

Gate agent doesn't know the TSA rules for this situation, so plays it safe in the interest of keeping his/her job. Nobody else involved in the evening's debacle knows the TSA rules well enough to educate the gate agent. Suppose the people involved in this mess let the pax off the airplane, and the TSA shows up in the morning and throws a tantrum because they weren't able to oversee the whole process? Or, God forbid, one of the pax wanders outside the "sterile area"? Everyone on duty that night did exactly what their airlines and their government have conditioned them to do when on the job - they covered their asses.

Granted, if I'd been responsible for that flight, that door would have been opened. I'm just not sure anyone's considered how thoroughly airlines have been set up for just this kind of situation.

Excellent points.

I cannot even run in to get a sandwhich or cup of coffee now in CVG because TSA requires the door of the aircraft and the ramp pulled away if everyone leaves the aircraft. This ramp is huge and requires ground staff. Whom are busy and have better things to do than this. Then upon our return the ground staff has to come back over to move the large ramp back to the aircraft, and I an additional set of stairs over to the galley door as we cannot usually open the jet way door from the outside. It's a serious pain in the a$$.

And for the first flight of the day the CA, instead of FO (my airline) is required to open all the stupid a$$ little hatches (outside) when He/She should be (inside) with the paperwork and the checks and all the other duties that are time consuming in the morning and directly pertaning to flight safety. Not a stupid a$$ what if scenario thought up by someone in Washington. All this because of TSA's mission creep from screener replacement to omnipresent security force.

Continuing...

Commute to work in uniform due to overnite kit liquids. Changing once through secutity not allowed (depending where you are.)

when enroute, can't leave the shadow of the aircraft. Mostly a problem for smokers. Cut the security line some places, others no employee line at all like CVG (until recently), others go through ops. Take your Id out here, other places they don't even look at it.

The TSA were at last years superbowl using their profiling "expertise".
Mission creep.....I gurantee it won't stop here.

 

[xjlifer]

Actually, it seems to me that the ExpressJet and Mesaba both did what they did because they were afraid to incur the wrath of The Blueberry Police. Given the frightening amount of power given to those waddling idiots and their tendency to redefine their own rules and methods on a near-daily basis, I'm inclined to look at this mess from a slightly different angle:

Gate agent doesn't know the TSA rules for this situation, so plays it safe in the interest of keeping his/her job. Nobody else involved in the evening's debacle knows the TSA rules well enough to educate the gate agent. Suppose the people involved in this mess let the pax off the airplane, and the TSA shows up in the morning and throws a tantrum because they weren't able to oversee the whole process? Or, God forbid, one of the pax wanders outside the "sterile area"? Everyone on duty that night did exactly what their airlines and their government have conditioned them to do when on the job - they covered their asses.

Granted, if I'd been responsible for that flight, that door would have been opened. I'm just not sure anyone's considered how thoroughly airlines have been set up for just this kind of situation.

Dead nuts on.

In the new age of punative zero tollerance TSA and FAA combined with XJ bean counters who would have fired the rampy for spending 1 nickle without approval and you have what happened.

 

[rene]

Sorry, I listened to all your explanations and i still don't agree that Mesaba should be fined. I am not sure why Delta isn't fighting this. Probably being politically expedient.

Why did TSA have to be present to deplane the aircraft? Why did the Captain not deplane anyway? Were was Express Jet SOC? What happened to all the NWA diversions on the ground? They went back to MSP. Express Jet couldn't because the crew was illegal. Maybe the flight should never have departed Houston?

Still a BS fine. Accountability sure. Who is holding the DOT and the FAA accountable for ATC delays and lack of infrastructure?

 

[Nevets]

Sorry, I listened to all your explanations and i still don't agree that Mesaba should be fined. I am not sure why Delta isn't fighting this. Probably being politically expedient.

Why did TSA have to be present to deplane the aircraft? Why did the Captain not deplane anyway? Were was Express Jet SOC? What happened to all the NWA diversions on the ground? They went back to MSP. Express Jet couldn't because the crew was illegal. Maybe the flight should never have departed Houston?

Still a BS fine. Accountability sure. Who is holding the DOT and the FAA accountable for ATC delays and lack of infrastructure?

This is the official DOT explanation:

Prior to diverting to Rochester, ExpressJet contacted Mesaba personnel at Rochester to request assistance at the airport, which Mesaba, the only airline staffing the airport at the time, agreed to provide. Shortly after the flight arrived in Rochester, the ExpressJet captain asked the Mesaba employee handling the flight whether the passengers could deplane into the airport terminal. In response to this initial inquiry, and other subsequent inquiries, the captain was told that passengers could not enter the terminal because there were no Transportation Security Administration (TSA) screeners on duty at that hour, despite the fact that TSA rules would have allowed the passengers to enter the airport as long as they remained in a sterile area.

The consent order covering Mesaba finds that the carrier engaged in an unfair and deceptive practice when it provided inaccurate information to ExpressJet about deplaning passengers from flight 2816.

 

[CptMurf]

Sorry, I listened to all your explanations and i still don't agree that Mesaba should be fined. I am not sure why Delta isn't fighting this. Probably being politically expedient.

Why did TSA have to be present to deplane the aircraft? Why did the Captain not deplane anyway? Were was Express Jet SOC? What happened to all the NWA diversions on the ground? They went back to MSP. Express Jet couldn't because the crew was illegal. Maybe the flight should never have departed Houston?

Still a BS fine. Accountability sure. Who is holding the DOT and the FAA accountable for ATC delays and lack of infrastructure?

I agree with you, there was more to the problem, someone had to get punished though. And I guess that was us.

TSA need not be present to deplane, but as stated above. Everyone is scared, because the "Tub Stackers of America" have too much power and influence over our operations. And no one knows their rules, since it seems each airport can change them.

Express Jet SOC was non existent, everything they blamed XJ for could have been handled by their SOC. Just pick up the phone and start waking people up. I'm sure they have the number.

The CA let it all happen. First she wanted to divert to Farmington (which has no airport), then chooses RST (which is not served by their brand). Seems when I choose alternates, I at least choose ones that can service, my aircraft, refuel, print paperwork, etc. Lastly, all the other diversions left for MSP. This crew had an opportunity to leave, but didn't like the weather she was seeing on depature. I won't judge her on that, but her dispatch did say the wx was off of MSP and there was an opportunity.

It was a smack on the hand for us. Overall, it was finacially cheaper that the minimum crew (agents boarding without FA's) fines we received lately.

 

[DoinTime]

Sorry, I listened to all your explanations and i still don't agree that Mesaba should be fined. I am not sure why Delta isn't fighting this. Probably being politically expedient.

Why did TSA have to be present to deplane the aircraft? Why did the Captain not deplane anyway? Were was Express Jet SOC? What happened to all the NWA diversions on the ground? They went back to MSP. Express Jet couldn't because the crew was illegal. Maybe the flight should never have departed Houston?

Still a BS fine. Accountability sure. Who is holding the DOT and the FAA accountable for ATC delays and lack of infrastructure?

If you don't already know the answers to those questions you shouldn't have formed an opinion on whether or not XJ should have been fined.