Do's and Don'ts of Aerial Photography?

[gkrangers]

So...I did a search and read a few threads, and have an idea of how things work with regard to stopping at other airports (falls under 135) and stuff....but my question is probably pretty simple in comparison.

So I'm a Commercial pilot. Could I rent an airplane from an FBO and fly around locally, returning to the departure airport only, with a photographer, for hire? Could I be compensated for the rental costs and my own fees for my pilot services?

Now, lets just pretend I have an FBO that would allow me to use a plane for aerial photography. I'm just concerned with the legality of it all right now.

Does it make a difference if it is my own personal airplane?

Thank you..

I don't have FARAIM with me, but I don't think there is that much in there, besides the "exceptions".

 

[FN FAL]

The photographer rents the plane.

The photographer retains you to fly it for him.

You can then go anywhere he wants you to take him...stops at other airports included.

You cannot work for the FBO in any capacity. You cannot have any ownership in this plane that is for rent.

 

[2000flyer]

Well, it's been over 15 years since I did aerial photography, but at no time did 135 come into play. The company I worked for rented a 150 and two 172s from the local FBO and we covered WI, MN, IA, KS, ND, and SD. We would go out an be on the road 2-4 days at a time. Obviously we had to stop at other airports for fuel and physical needs.

My guess is most aerial photo companies either own, rent or lease aircraft. I would think mapping/survey operators own since the planes have to be modified.

As far as starting a business for yourself with your own aircraft, if I were you, I'd do a very thorough search of the area (within a couple hundred miles) to see if there is another company doing the same thing. Competition could be keen in some areas. Also, consider your need for a sales person. At the company I worked for, we had two pilot's, a professional photo lab with technician, the owner and 4-6 sales people (seasonal). The pilot's took the photos and marked maps and the sales people went back out with a proof sheet making hundreds of cold calls trying to find buyers. Amazingly, it was a sucessful venture and to the best of my knowledge, they're still in busiess.

Good luck with your venture!

2000Flyer

 

[gkrangers]

Mom is a realtor, so I could probably get a few "clients" this summer. Make a few bucks, log a few hours here and there since I won't have my CFI done yet.

So if we rented from an FBO, the photographer would have to be on the books as the renter?

How about if I rented the plane, took the pictures myself, and sold them. (I'd prefer to keep my eyes outside tho...) How about that?

 

[JimNtexas]

I'm no photographer, but I did take some aerial pictures of a lot I was looking at. When I showed them my real estate agent she offered me a hundred bucks to take similar shots of other properties she was listing.

I passed on it just because the potential hassel wasn't worth it.

There are guys here in the Austin area who just take these pictures of commerical buildings and large houses on spec and then send a salesman to sell them after the fact. There is also a guy with a tethered blimp that lifts a camera up a hundred feet or so to take pictures of your building.

 

[FN FAL]

So if we rented from an FBO, the photographer would have to be on the books as the renter?

No...just don't take the photographer on any flight where he/she would be sitting on the floor of the aircraft without the intention of parachuting and you'll be ok.

Seriously, you could rent the plane to take the photog up for a local flight...that's the same as charging for a "plane ride". I think that when you mentioned going to other airports, that's where I got confused, but I just went back and re-read your post.

I have done the local area photo shoots myself and we returned to the same airport we took off from. Unless Avbug has some case law to cite or other issues with it, I think that's totally within the realm of "commercial" flying.

However, if you're going to go to other airports with a photog, you should look into having them rent the plane and retaining you as separate transactions. Documentation will save your bacon and prevent anyone from becoming confused.

 

[mcjohn]

Yeah Yeah Just make sure your not using a 3rd class medical.

 

[2000flyer]

I'm a bit confused here. If you are a photographer and you have a pilot's license (private or commercial) and you go rent a plane, take a picture, turn around and sell it, this equates to some sort of "commercial aviation?"

I can understand it if a photographer asks you to fly him somewhere to take pictures (sounds like a 135 charter to me), but going to another airport has nothing to do with it. If they hire you to fly...period...going to another airport shouldn't be part of the question.

Now...if the photographer or their company OWNS an aircraft and hires you, you are a Part 91 pilot for hire and as long as you have a commercial certificate, you're good to go.

Legal Disclaimer: The information provided above is the opinion of an employed corporate pilot outside the business of "aerial photography" and should only be used for thought provoking moments!

 

[navigator72]

Aerial photos

When I was flying scenic tours, we would occasionaly fly photographers and I was told by our chief pilot that we could fly them outside the 25 statute mile scenic ring as long as they were actually professional photographers (not someone with a disposable camera) and we had to make sure we weren't landing somewhere other than our departure airport. It worked for me for 3 years.

Aerial photography is a great source for some extra income, for those of you who are looking for some extra $$$, Very high profit margin.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I can understand it if a photographer asks you to fly him somewhere to take pictures (sounds like a 135 charter to me), but going to another airport has nothing to do with it. If they hire you to fly...period...going to another airport shouldn't be part of the question.

Legal Disclaimer: The information provided above is the opinion of an employed corporate pilot outside the business of "aerial photography" and should only be used for thought provoking moments!

Good thing you put in the disclaimer

Check out this thread...
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=69586&highlight=aerial+photography

 

[gkrangers]

No...just don't take the photographer on any flight where he/she would be sitting on the floor of the aircraft without the intention of parachuting and you'll be ok.

Seriously, you could rent the plane to take the photog up for a local flight...that's the same as charging for a "plane ride". I think that when you mentioned going to other airports, that's where I got confused, but I just went back and re-read your post.

I have done the local area photo shoots myself and we returned to the same airport we took off from. Unless Avbug has some case law to cite or other issues with it, I think that's totally within the realm of "commercial" flying.

However, if you're going to go to other airports with a photog, you should look into having them rent the plane and retaining you as separate transactions. Documentation will save your bacon and prevent anyone from becoming confused.

Does the 25 mile rule apply? Just curious..for me it wouldn't matter, since all the houses would be in my local area. And thanks to whoever mentioned that medical thing...I need to get my eyes up to snuff to get my 2nd/1st back...

I just want to be careful with this stuff, because we all know "commercial" aviation gets real ticky tacky...and I'd rather my 250 hour butt not get cited.

 

[uwochris]

If you are going to be flying and taking pictures, just be careful! I spent 1 year working as an aerial photographer where I was both the pilot and the photographer. It was an awesome job where I learned a lot and gained some valuable experience flying all across Canada. I miss that job a lot!

I scared myself on a few occasions, and I admit, that I would often try to go the extra mile just to get a sweet picture of a property. All our operations were at 500-1000AGL, so there was little room for error. I will admit that I have also gotten into situations where the stall horn would come on while I was in a steep turn-- definetly something that will get your attention and scare you! As I gained more experience, I became more aware of my own limits too. There were a few instances where I turned down photo-shoots just because I wasn't comfortable with it anymore (cottage photography--- this was the most challenging, and it's where I stalled the plane at low altitude. Fortunately my boss was cool with it and I never accepted that type of work again, even though it had the highest pay). The weather was also a big factor. If the photographer is trying to pressure you into going but the weather is questionable, don't be afraid to say no. I've had to cancel several wedding contracts because of weather.

If you can get away with it, try to stay as high as possible. If you need to get low, then just be sure you have complete situational awareness of everything- power lines, towers, skydivers, restricted airspace, etc etc.

 

[mcjohn]

I'd rather my 250 hour butt not get cited.

:blush:

 

[777-2H4]

gkrangers, I'm not a pilot but I am a photographer. Not a lot of experience shooting commercially-saleable aerial photos but yet I've done some awesome stuff. In fact last week I was on the main page of airliners.net with a one-of-a-kind shot. I shoot Canon digital. if you need a photog let me know! for a commercial assignment or not, it would be great to get some commercial-type shots to make a portfolio with.

This is an intersting thread. I would like to expand into aerial photography as well, but I guess I'd have to rent the plane. I dont know how I'd find someone here in Wisconsin to fly it though.

 

[sleddriver71]

No, the 25 mile rule does not apply to photo flights.

 

[navigator72]

Good money

I also shoot Canon digital, I made over $200.00 profit for 20 minutes worth of work last week. This is a great monthly gig that will bring in over $10,000 this year.

 

[av8rbama]

There's a little blurb about this in the "everything explained for the profesisonal pilot" book. BTW, mine came in last week and it is friggin AWESOME, I've got such a better grasp on some "iffy" subjects.

If you have a guy going with you to take pictures, it's not 135 unless you drop him off at another airport, thus delivering "persons or property" for hire.

Many people have inquired about whether what I do for a living requires a commercial certificate. It depends on who you talk to at the FSDO. We go, take pictures, and occasionally land for fuel or to take a piss. We come back with the exact same thing we left with, so is it incidental to the business? The only difference is film is "exposed" when we return.

And most "aerial photographers" around this area (central alabama) own their own aircraft, just like my company that has STCs for the camera holes.

 

[777-2H4]

I also shoot Canon digital, I made over $200.00 profit for 20 minutes worth of work last week. This is a great monthly gig that will bring in over $10,000 this year.

Ok, so now I have to ask: how does one get started in this (from the photographer's perspective)?

 

[MauleSkinner]

If you have a guy going with you to take pictures, it's not 135 unless you drop him off at another airport, thus delivering "persons or property" for hire.

Many people have inquired about whether what I do for a living requires a commercial certificate. It depends on who you talk to at the FSDO. We go, take pictures, and occasionally land for fuel or to take a piss. We come back with the exact same thing we left with, so is it incidental to the business? The only difference is film is "exposed" when we return.

HOWEVER...according to Donald P. Byrne, Acting Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations and Enforcement Division in 1990, landing for "physicological reasons" at an airport other than the origin/destination takes the flight out of the "aerial phtography" exception and places it under 135. (assuming that the pilot is "owned" by the same people who own the airplane, and the photographer is hiring them for the flight)


Fly safe!

David

 

[gkrangers]

So what is the going rate for this sort of thing? I would take a photog up with me and charge for the aircraft + me flying it. I wouldn't get involved with taking pictures and selling them.