Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Don't put it off, your job is on the line.

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Your right my appologies. Let's see if we pass the law many more people can can continue to work and some may ( including myself ) have to wait for upgrade. Or we can reject the law and only the greed junior pilots that are under 60 will benefit. Yep I am against everything that is good thanks for pointing that out. NOw stop whinning you moron...
 
NOw stop whinning you moron...

There is a surprise. The discussion turns to name-calling on FI. I guess I should have expected as much.

Guess it is the "land of the free" as you say, as long as it suits you. Otherwise everybody else is a moron.
 
Bill Nelson said:
Congress only has 9 more work days before they recess. they will vote on this before they go. Don't put it off, you are getting screwed by crooked politicians in Congress and your Union. ACT NOW! (make sure the title of your email tells them to remove S65 from HR5576 in case they don't read the whole email)

The House passed HR 5576, an appropriations bill for the DOT, HUD, and District of Columbia. It did not contain any provisions to change the age 60 rule in it.
HR 5576 then went to the Senate appropriations committee for amendments prior to being voted on. While there, the entire text of S. 65 was added in Section 114 under Administrative Provisions -- Offfice of the Secrety of Transportation (link: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...sismU9:e379863: ) . This amendment is a back door way of getting legislation passed.
There is a way to have it removed, but it will require a Senator to object (a point of order can be made) to it once it is reported to the Senate. The bill has been reported to the Senate and is on the calendar under General Order Number 535. If the point of order is sustained (it should be, since this is a legislative rider on an appropriations bill), the bill will go back to the Committee on Appropriations. This is based on the Rules of the Senate, Rule XVI, paragraph 2. Link: http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/rule16.php

In order to stop the change from slipping in through the back door, it will require an effort on your part to write, fax, or e-mail (in order of preference) your Senators to express your opinion. Since there is more resistance to the change among the Democratic party, I'd recommend writing Democratic Senators outside of you home state if you have the time.
Here is a link to all Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm
If you click on Web Form, it will usually take you to an e-mail form to send. If you click on the Senator's name, you will find mailing addresses and fax numbers.

On the Democrat side, I'd recommend concentrating firepower on Sens Inouye, Lautenberg, Rockefeller, Cantwell, Dorgan, and Pryor. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquer...&r_n=sr225.109 &item=&sel=TOC_17092&

If anyone recommends any other Senator to target, please post.

If you're looking for support from ALPA, I found this on the ALPA webboard (posted by an America West pilot):

“DW showed up in Phoenix yesterday. He was in town to talk "DELTA" with Doug Parker (Oops, I'd better not start THAT rumor...think December 4). And as luck would have it, our MEC just happened to be having a "special" meeting yesterday, followed by a "regular" meeting today. Duane showed up and gave his campaign stump speech, explaining why the Reps should vote him a third term.
But Duane, aren't you going to turn 60 during your term? ... paraphrasing one of the questions.
Never one to be without an answer, Duane replied (again paraphrasing): Well, Age 60 is going to change by the end of the year. It is Stevens' rider that will be attached to the next FAA appropriations bill and will be buried in 24,000 pages of spending.
But will it pass? Will it be Age 62, intially? Will ALPA oppose it? What about the polls? What about the "children?"
DW: It will pass and it will be age 65. ALPA doesn't always pay attention to the polls (although ALPA certainly "pays" for them).


It looks like they're trying to stuff this through the back door of Congress and 'ol Duane Woerth is looking to stay in office for an additional five years. If you are opposed to the change, get out there and write to the Senate.

This is absolutely wonderful news!
I sincerely hope all your efforts fail.
Good (or should I say "Bad") luck.
 
THIS AGE 60 DEBATE is over. You old farts had your chance it's time to retire period. You knew it going in and your going to know it going out. Don't worry the appropriate phone calls and messages have been sent. I've done my part to stop your thievery of my career. Retire with some dignity.
 
Hey when your 60 and Air France, British Airways, JAL Korean Air, Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Luftansa, KLM, Air Nippon, Quantas, China Air and many others are flying your routes with 65 yr. Old pilots and you are still an FO don't blame us old retired farts. It will be you own short sightedness that caused the situation. Who knows maybe you will be in some bad luck a wife or child that needs medical care and you will walk right out the door with dignity and then look up and see the ICAO pilots flying over your head and doing it with your blessings/
 
I see more of my peers in the older age group in better physical and mental shape than those of my younger ones. There are more pilots of countries outside of the USA that fly their pilots over the age of 60 to 65 than there are probably 121 pilots here. I think the rule is old and believe me, if you're not in physical or mental condition at near 60, you're probably not going to keep your medical anyway. So stop the mad rush because you're furloughed and awaiting a call-back because pilots start retiring in droves. You were furloughed because your company's management deemed you unnecessary for their business until they come out of bankruptcy, line their pockets with cash then request your services back on cut-rate-pay and benefits that your union was unable to stop management from raping you of!!!
 
BLUE BAYOU said:
I see more of my peers in the older age group in better physical and mental shape than those of my younger ones. There are more pilots of countries outside of the USA that fly their pilots over the age of 60 to 65 than there are probably 121 pilots here. I think the rule is old and believe me, if you're not in physical or mental condition at near 60, you're probably not going to keep your medical anyway. So stop the mad rush because you're furloughed and awaiting a call-back because pilots start retiring in droves. You were furloughed because your company's management deemed you unnecessary for their business until they come out of bankruptcy, line their pockets with cash then request your services back on cut-rate-pay and benefits that your union was unable to stop management from raping you of!!!

While we're at it let's change the 8 hour block rule also.
 
These lame, short-sighted idiots in Congress! They forgot to include raising the ATC mandatory retirement age. Why cap them at 55?

Which one of you would like your New York Approach or SoCal Approach controller be 62 years old?

Hey, after all, since they're not subject to overstressing their circadian rythms by flying through multiple time zones, we should allow them to stay on scopes until 75.

Why not?? They're experienced! :D
 
BLUE BAYOU said:
I see more of my peers in the older age group in better physical and mental shape than those of my younger ones. There are more pilots of countries outside of the USA that fly their pilots over the age of 60 to 65 than there are probably 121 pilots here. I think the rule is old and believe me, if you're not in physical or mental condition at near 60, you're probably not going to keep your medical anyway. So stop the mad rush because you're furloughed and awaiting a call-back because pilots start retiring in droves. You were furloughed because your company's management deemed you unnecessary for their business until they come out of bankruptcy, line their pockets with cash then request your services back on cut-rate-pay and benefits that your union was unable to stop management from raping you of!!!

Exactly. Most of the "young" guys I fly with are very "eager". But they are not very "good". (They LOVE flying thru thunderstorms-or at least trying to - as most of them are idiots).

Give me a "seasoned" pilot every time.
 
While I'm in favor of the age 65 change I question if the FAA has the authority to say what will or will not be the basis for a claim in civil court.


(b) APPLICABILITY- The modification of the Federal Aviation Administration regulations under subsection (a) shall not provide the basis for a claim of seniority under any labor agreement in effect between a recognized bargaining unit for pilots and an air carrier engaged in operations under part 121 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, made by any pilot seeking reemployment by such air carrier following the pilot's previous termination or cessation of employment as required by section 121.323(c), title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, as that section was in effect on the date of enactment of this Act.
 
So you're saying change is forbidden?

Yuppyguppy said:
THIS AGE 60 DEBATE is over. You old farts had your chance it's time to retire period. You knew it going in and your going to know it going out. Don't worry the appropriate phone calls and messages have been sent. I've done my part to stop your thievery of my career. Retire with some dignity.

Alright then. Lets get rid of FMS, GPS, IRS and all the other magic. That's not the way it was when you signed up for this (unless you're a real newbie) so it must not be allowed!!
The only thing constant is change. Learn to live with it and stop the boo f'ing hooing.
 
I hope everyone who had time to argue the pointless on this board also have time to write your senators. I think they're (late bloomers) monopolizing your time here so you won't go and write the G-- d--- letter!
 
BLUE BAYOU said:
I see more of my peers in the older age group in better physical and mental shape than those of my younger ones.

BLUE BAYOU,

No doubt a highly scientific and unbiased study conducted by yourself. Heck, with that observation, why limit yourself to 65 -- let’s fly until 100!!!!!

Thanks for the laugh this morning.

AA767AV8TOR
 
ironspud said:
Exactly. Most of the "young" guys I fly with are very "eager". But they are not very "good". (They LOVE flying thru thunderstorms-or at least trying to - as most of them are idiots).

Ironspud,

I guess it takes one to know one. :beer:

AA767AV8TOR
 
I just talked to the guy from ALPA PAC. If you are against this backdoor method of changing the age 60 rule you need to contact your Senators and Representative. There is a chance we can still stop this but it will be difficult. Send and email and make a call.
 
Freight Dog said:
These lame, short-sighted idiots in Congress! They forgot to include raising the ATC mandatory retirement age. Why cap them at 55?

Which one of you would like your New York Approach or SoCal Approach controller be 62 years old?

Funny...but the age of any controller I have ever talked to has never crossed my mind. And-d-d-d....I have never heard anyone on a frequescy ask a controller his/her age. So....If I don't know, why should I care? As long as the guy does his job the way he/she is supposed to do it.

This is equal to the "Do you want to be rescued by a 62 yr old firefighter?"

Answer: If thats the only guy who charges up the ladder to get me....I'm going with him....I'm certainly not going to send him back down for a younger firefighter.

Tejas
 
From Senator Cornyn

For fellow Texans who don't support lame politicians that disregard constituency wishes:

Dear Mr. XXXXXX:

Thank you for contacting me about the mandatory retirement age for airline pilots. I appreciate having the benefit of your views on this issue.

As you may know, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) prohibits pilots from serving in airline cockpits past age 60. Instituted by executive order of the Administrator in 1959, this rule was originally designed to retire WWII-era pilots and avoid retraining them in new, high performance jet aircraft. However, airlines in most other countries have more lenient age restrictions, and many older pilots currently fly in U.S. airspace.

On January 24, 2005, Senator James Inhofe introduced the Age 65 Act (S. 65). This legislation—which I co-sponsor—would limit age restrictions imposed by the FAA for the issuance or renewal of certain airman certificates. S. 65 was referred to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation for consideration.

I believe determination of competency should be based on individual ability and flying skills rather than assumptions about age. Through routine proficiency and competency checks, both the FAA and individual airlines would have capable indicators of pilot competency. If a pilot is unable to meet these standards, he is then eligible for removal from flight duty. These checks commonly include two flight physicals, an electrocardiograph, two simulator proficiency checks, and at least one line check per year.

I appreciate having the opportunity to represent the interests of Texans in the United States Senate, and you may be sure I will keep your views in mind as this issue is considered throughout the 109th Congress. Thank you for taking the time to contact me.


Sincerely,

JOHN CORNYN
United States Senator





517 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: (202) 224-2934
Fax: (202) 228-2856
http://www.cornyn.senate.gov
 
AA767 I think you flew too close to the sun. Maybe you spent too much time in a brain bucket flying B-1's at any rate why don't you go chat with John Doe and leave the discussion here, to those that have something to say worth reading.
 
Bill Nelson said:
Congress only has 9 more work days before they recess. they will vote on this before they go. Don't put it off, you are getting screwed by crooked politicians in Congress and your Union. ACT NOW! (make sure the title of your email tells them to remove S65 from HR5576 in case they don't read the whole email)

The House passed HR 5576, an appropriations bill for the DOT, HUD, and District of Columbia. It did not contain any provisions to change the age 60 rule in it.
HR 5576 then went to the Senate appropriations committee for amendments prior to being voted on. While there, the entire text of S. 65 was added in Section 114 under Administrative Provisions -- Offfice of the Secrety of Transportation (link: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...sismU9:e379863: ) . This amendment is a back door way of getting legislation passed.
There is a way to have it removed, but it will require a Senator to object (a point of order can be made) to it once it is reported to the Senate. The bill has been reported to the Senate and is on the calendar under General Order Number 535. If the point of order is sustained (it should be, since this is a legislative rider on an appropriations bill), the bill will go back to the Committee on Appropriations. This is based on the Rules of the Senate, Rule XVI, paragraph 2. Link: http://rules.senate.gov/senaterules/rule16.php

In order to stop the change from slipping in through the back door, it will require an effort on your part to write, fax, or e-mail (in order of preference) your Senators to express your opinion. Since there is more resistance to the change among the Democratic party, I'd recommend writing Democratic Senators outside of you home state if you have the time.
Here is a link to all Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm
If you click on Web Form, it will usually take you to an e-mail form to send. If you click on the Senator's name, you will find mailing addresses and fax numbers.

On the Democrat side, I'd recommend concentrating firepower on Sens Inouye, Lautenberg, Rockefeller, Cantwell, Dorgan, and Pryor. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquer...&r_n=sr225.109 &item=&sel=TOC_17092&

If anyone recommends any other Senator to target, please post.

If you're looking for support from ALPA, I found this on the ALPA webboard (posted by an America West pilot):

“DW showed up in Phoenix yesterday. He was in town to talk "DELTA" with Doug Parker (Oops, I'd better not start THAT rumor...think December 4). And as luck would have it, our MEC just happened to be having a "special" meeting yesterday, followed by a "regular" meeting today. Duane showed up and gave his campaign stump speech, explaining why the Reps should vote him a third term.
But Duane, aren't you going to turn 60 during your term? ... paraphrasing one of the questions.
Never one to be without an answer, Duane replied (again paraphrasing): Well, Age 60 is going to change by the end of the year. It is Stevens' rider that will be attached to the next FAA appropriations bill and will be buried in 24,000 pages of spending.
But will it pass? Will it be Age 62, intially? Will ALPA oppose it? What about the polls? What about the "children?"
DW: It will pass and it will be age 65. ALPA doesn't always pay attention to the polls (although ALPA certainly "pays" for them).


It looks like they're trying to stuff this through the back door of Congress and 'ol Duane Woerth is looking to stay in office for an additional five years. If you are opposed to the change, get out there and write to the Senate.

The amendment should be included and the bill should pass allowing age extension to 65.

Why force someone into retirement when that same government that now requires one to retire at 60 does NOT allow social security and medicare to kick in for them. At least make an exception for them then and permit them to use these facilities if 60 is to remain in effect.
 
Cobra said:
For fellow Texans who don't support lame politicians that disregard constituency wishes:

JOHN CORNYN
United States Senator

Actually, Senator Cornyn supports the wishes of this constituent on the age 60 issue. Just because you don't want it doesn't mean the entire constituency is on your side. I think its called....democracy.

Tejas
 
It will pass and fast. Why? Money. They want the pork for their district to show what they have done for the next election. It's over guys.
 
Tejas-Jet said:
Funny...but the age of any controller I have ever talked to has never crossed my mind. And-d-d-d....I have never heard anyone on a frequescy ask a controller his/her age. So....If I don't know, why should I care? As long as the guy does his job the way he/she is supposed to do it.

This is equal to the "Do you want to be rescued by a 62 yr old firefighter?"

Answer: If thats the only guy who charges up the ladder to get me....I'm going with him....I'm certainly not going to send him back down for a younger firefighter.

Tejas


Actually, it's not the same... and you should care because if the guy croaks on the scope, you stand a good chance of having a rather interesting day. OK, maybe he won't croak, maybe he'll just have a senior moment and again make your day exciting.

Frankly, I think 60 is too old.

What's even scarier is that the majority of you old guys refuse to even recognize that you decline with age.

Sorry, my kids deserve better.

*IF* we faced critical pilot shortage where all that was left was a bunch of old guys, raising this age limit would make sense given the lack of other options. But when there are thousands upon thousands of qualified YOUNGER pilots available, it serves no useful purpose whatsoever.
 
Last edited:
Freight Dog said:
Actually, it's not the same... and you should care because if the guy croaks on the scope, you stand a good chance of having a rather interesting day. OK, maybe he won't croak, maybe he'll just have a senior moment and again make your day exciting.

Frankly, I think 60 is too old.

What's even scarier is that the majority of you old guys refuse to even recognize that you decline with age.

Sorry, my kids deserve better.

*IF* we faced critical pilot shortage where all that was left was a bunch of old guys, raising this age limit would make sense given the lack of other options. But when there are thousands upon thousands of qualified YOUNGER pilots available, it serves no useful purpose whatsoever.


If the safety of the flying public is really what concerns you about the potential change to age 65, maybe you should begin a letter writing campaign demanding more stringent medical standards for all pilots.

More likely is the fact that you see the change as an impediment to your own upgrade to Captain and the negative effect that will have on your career earnings. You motivation is no less self-serving than those that want to see the age changed for their own benefit.
 
Tejas-Jet said:
Actually, Senator Cornyn supports the wishes of this constituent on the age 60 issue. Just because you don't want it doesn't mean the entire constituency is on your side. I think its called....democracy.

Tejas

Actually there Jacka$$, polling demonstrated through ALPA that the majority of pilots are in disfavor of a rule change. I'm sure that if one sampled the amount of texans from this poll the proportions would add up the same.

So, as a result it's not Democracy. It's business as usual. Like mentioned in a previous post it's a bunch of politicians and corrupt union officials who are more interested on the money side of this thing-not safety but, prevention of the collapse of the PBGC. You think these people really care if you or anybody else gets to fly to age 65? If so, I've got ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell you at a premium.
 
Cobra said:
Actually there Jacka$$, polling demonstrated through ALPA that the majority of pilots are in disfavor of a rule change. I'm sure that if one sampled the amount of texans from this poll the proportions would add up the same.

So, as a result it's not Democracy. It's business as usual. Like mentioned in a previous post it's a bunch of politicians and corrupt union officials who are more interested on the money side of this thing-not safety but, prevention of the collapse of the PBGC. You think these people really care if you or anybody else gets to fly to age 65? If so, I've got ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell you at a premium.

How will raising the age help the PBGC? Wont it raise the amount paid out to the pilots by 50% when they retire at 65 instead of 60?
 
Freight Dog said:
Frankly, I think 60 is too old.

What's even scarier is that the majority of you old guys refuse to even recognize that you decline with age.

Sorry, my kids deserve better.

I agree...your kids do deserve better. And since you are a concerned father, tell us how many times you have marched into the Chief Pilot's office and told him/her about the poor performance of the Pilot you recently flew with.

...and what was the outcome?

Tejas
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom