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Don't pay Kit D. any more $.

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Badger

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Posts
95
I imagine everyone else that wasted their $ @ the DC fail is getting the flash-mail on all the DFW Airinc fair. I don't know if I'm the only one but I felt like I'd been raped with a broom handle walking out of there.

Don't support Airinc's/Kit Darby's exploitation of pilots in a desperate industry.

(unless you'd like to just stand-up and clap for Kit! (attendee's know what I mean), Or...hear US Airways hiring plans.

Good Luck to all.
 
While I think that AirInc is entitled to make money for his "services", I think his rates are overpriced, and his mentality is "exploitive". However Flip Conroy (nice picture) is 100% correct and many people have benefited from some of his services.. mainly the job fairs. Unfortunately it is like playing the lottery, you spend money knowing that maybe you will and maybe you won't win, BUT you gotta spend the money and be in it to win. There are some companies at that job fair that will be able to see you and put you at the top of their interview/hiring list, and bingo the whole experience pays off. There is also a lot of hot air there too, but you have to realize that going in.
 
know

Basically you need to be able to value yourself realistically.

Is there someone there you want to talk to face to face?

Are you competitive for that company in todays market and do you know what is really competitive?

Are they going to hire in a reasonably timely time frame?

Perhaps get a friend to answer these questions for you as many times your own opinion is not free to be realistic.
 
Do a search

This has been addressed more times that we would like to admitt, do a search, get all the info and make your decision. As I have said before I wish Kit had been around in the 70's when I cmae out of the Navy, and in the 80's when I was between jobs. Make your decision and take in all sides of an issue.
 
re: Air Inc.

I was a past member of Air, Inc. and the only product I liked
is the magazine. Fortunately, you can subscribe to it separately.

601Pilot
 
Kit Darby - The Pied Piper of pilot shortages

Kit Darby should change his name to P.T. Barnum. You need to examine his history. Fifteen years ago, he was running Future Aviation Professionals of America ("FAPA") and was putting out news releases about a pilot shortage. Kit was saying that forty-thousand pilots would be needed during the next ten years. The news media picked up on it, quoting FAPA (and Kit) as its source, without verifying his claims through independent data, such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and the public at large started hearing about a "pilot shortage." No doubt that Kit's "pilot shortage" prompted a lot of people, including me, to consider an aviation career, though chances are I would have done it anyway because I wanted to do something else with my life at the time.

In any event, Kit started to advertise in the general interest pilot magazines, the types of mags that pilots like me would read. In so doing, he made public what was heretofore virtually proprietary, secret information. And, he made it sound so EASY!!. Not only did he say there was a pilot shortage, but, with FAPA, he provided an avenue to the career. I didn't know anything about professional aviation as a career, so I joined FAPA. His materials were valuable in explaining how and where to begin and how to apply.

However, when I started to apply, I very quickly became aware that there was no "pilot shortage." When I first started looking for work, I really didn't have much multi. I was frustrated, especially after seeing that so many places had relatively low requirements. Later, when I built more time and multi time, I had few responses to my tons of materials. That underscored to me, anyway, how there was no "pilot shortage" and how Kit was promulgating a sophistry with his "pilot shortage."

Kit's appearance before the public at large and the seductiveness of his materials has misled a lot of people, in my .02 opinion. His Career Pilot rag made it sound as if a professional aviation career was within reach of the ordinary layman. Kit never told the truth about how tough it is to find work. The only way he addressed finding work was to be "positive" and "persistent." It takes much more than being positive and persistent, Kit, to build a piloting career.

In particular, Kit wrote encouraging words about over-40 pilots (and over 50 pilots) who were getting on with the majors. The general conception was that you had to be much younger than forty to be hired by the majors. Kit was telling only half-truths. Yes, the majors were hiring pilots who were over forty years old. But, these were extremely experienced and qualified individuals who just hadn't gotten their chances. They were those who had been flying turbine equipment for years, and who had been flying for the commuters, or corporate, or were ex-military. Kit made it sound as if you could be forty, start from zero time, and get on with the majors!

What continues to rile me about Kit is he still pushes his pilot shortage, in these times. Maybe Kit cannot handle the truth. He can go ask the furloughees if there is any "pilot shortage."

I realize that his seminars are at issue in this thread. I went to one of his FAPA seminars in Los Angeles nine years ago. It got me nowhere. The only thing I liked about the seminar is that I met Irv Jasinski, whose interview prep service I used and whose book, Airline Pilot Interviews, I bought from Kit.

In all fairness, Kit promotes some valuable publications and puts out decent resume prep materials. In the '80s, he did provide a ways and means to get started. But, these days, with resources such as this board and the internet in general, you can get the information you need without making Kit rich. Moreover, it will be real-time information. Kit's information was always outdated.

No, don't pay Kit D. any more $s. You have better ways to spend your money that buying a Kit Darby membership and secret decoder ring. As always, that's just my .02.

I bet that Enigma has something to add about Kit, too.
 
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Pied Piper, Part II

Speaking of Bureau of Labor Statistics, the following is an excerpt from the BLS' page on Aircraft Pilots and Flight Engineers.

Pilots are expected to face strong competition for jobs through the year 2010. Many qualified persons seek jobs in this occupation because it offers very high earnings, glamour, prestige, and free or low-cost travel benefits. As time passes, some pilots will fail to maintain their qualifications, and the number of applicants competing for each opening should decline. Factors affecting demand, however, are not expected to ease that competition.
Relatively few jobs will be created from rising demand for pilots, even though employment is expected to increase about as fast as the average for all occupations through 2010. Expected growth in domestic and international airline passenger and cargo traffic will create a need for more airliners, pilots, and flight instructors. However, computerized flight management systems on new aircraft will continue to eliminate the need for flight engineers on those planes, thus restricting the growth of pilot employment. In addition, the trend toward using larger planes in the airline industry will increase pilot productivity. Future business travel could also be adversely affected by the growing use of teleconferencing, facsimile mail, and electronic communications—such as e-mail—as well as by the elimination of middle management positions in corporate downsizing. Employment of business pilots is expected to grow more slowly than in the past as more businesses opt to fly with regional and smaller airlines serving their area rather than to buy and operate their own aircraft. The number of job openings resulting from the need to replace pilots who retire or leave the occupation traditionally has been very low. Aircraft pilots usually have a strong attachment to their occupation because it requires a substantial investment in specialized training that is not transferable to other fields, and it commonly offers very high earnings. However, many of the pilots who were hired in the late 1960s are approaching the age for mandatory retirement and, thus, several thousand job openings are expected to be generated each year.

Pilots who have logged the greatest number of flying hours in the more sophisticated equipment typically have the best prospects. For this reason, military pilots often have an advantage over other applicants. Job seekers with the most FAA licenses also will have a competitive advantage. Opportunities for pilots in the regional commuter airlines and international service are expected to be more favorable, as these segments are expected to grow faster than other segments of the industry.

Employment of pilots is sensitive to cyclical swings in the economy. During recessions, when a decline in the demand for air travel forces airlines to curtail the number of flights, airlines may temporarily furlough some pilots. Commercial and corporate flying, flight instruction, and testing of new aircraft also decline during recessions, adversely affecting the employment of pilots in those areas.


Can you project a 40-thousand pilot need over the next ten years after reading this? I . . . don't . . . think . . . so, Kit.
 
I think that this Air Inc thing has going overboard. I spent time with my company there in DC. I think its wrong what Air Inc is doing. You tell pilots theres jobs out there and if you go through Air Inc you will get interviews. Well thats true. You will get an face to face interview, but that is for a very selective few.

If I could put my 2 cents in. You don't need Air Inc to get a job. You do the work yourself. I know guys who work at Southwest and they practice interviews with new pilots. So why should you pay all that money to practice with Air Inc who's information is so far off its not funny. For example Fed Ex. Air inc says they have the inside of FedEX. One of our pilots in my squadron went there and 2 weeks later interviewed with FedEX. He said nothing was even close. When he called Air Inc back about it they were rude to him. If he would have done what Air Inc asked him to do he would not have gotten the job at Fed Ex so be careful.
 
I have to comment here. I don't have too much experience with Kit Darby except that I had a magazine subscription for a year that I liked and I also once ordered the pilot salary survey book. Both of these I liked. Though I have to absolutely agree with everyone that there is no pilot shortage and the rhetoric I heard for years was rediculous. It seemed that every flight school I talked to, every university with a flight program, every FBO was touting this pilot shortage for many years to come. Granted lots of pilots were hired in the late 90's and early part of this decade. But pilot "shortage" is so misleading. Everyone seemed to tell you it was easy to become an airline pilot, just sign here and pay us your money. They make you think that once you have your ratings and a certain "minimum" number of hours you can get hired. They never talked about having the hours and experience to be COMPETETIVE. I naively thought I just needed a few hours of turbine or multi time and I'd get a job and I had pleanty of people offering those pay-for-training type jobs flying right seat of a BE-99 or Chieftain. They take advantage of impressionable and hopeful pilots who are willing to fork over thousands of dollars for a couple hundred hours of flight time that still won't make them competetive. And now all the pilot has is a huge loan payment to make. The promoters of these programs line their pockets as well as their profit margins with these programs that more resemble some crooked mafia racket than pilot training. Luckily I never fell for the trap (though I wanted to many times and it seemed the easy way out). Once I got my commercial multi in '97 I sent literally hundreds of resumes throughout the whole world seeking a flying job hoping for some miracle flying job I heard of (like flying right seat of a Lear jet in Italy with only 250 hours). Nothing happened. I finally realized I needed to get my CFI, CFII, and MEI. Once that happened doors opened and I had a few offers. I was now competetive for being a CFI. While flight instructing I continued to send out resumes in hopes of one of those dream jobs but nothing happpend. Then once I reached the magic 1200 total I sent out resumes to IFR part 135 freight operators. I had tons of responses because I was now competetive. Then after a year of flying freight I sent out tons of apps for regionals and coporate lear jet jobs and got tons of offers. I was again competetive. Even though a 250 hour commercial multi pilot can technically be hired to fly a 747 it's all about competetiveness. When I got those jobs the hours to be competetive were lower than they are now. So you need to be even more competetive now. That's one word that all these flight schools forget to tell their impressionable flight students, to be COMPETETIVE. Yes, you can fly for a living but it takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice and you may have to wait years to get a job. Unfortunately you may not have the money to live on to hang out till the hiring gets better and thus this many not be the right career for you. You may be lucky and get hired in a booming economy or you may end up waiting for years to get hired due to a recession. Or you may get furloughed. It's tough and I think it's worth it but it's not the walk in the park that so many marketing arms of flight schools lead you to believe. Get hours, get eperience, get ratings, and do it the right way, by getting a job flying, not paying someone money to say your an experienced pilot. PIC is better than SIC. 1500 total and 200 piston twin with 1450 of that being PIC is better than 400 total and 200 turbine with only 150 of that being PIC. 1000 total with 700 of that being CFI is better than 1000 total all being done in you Father's Bonanza. Hours built while flying as a pilot in a job are better than hours built renting, paying for training, and/or sitting SIC. Turbine is good, jet is good, multi is good. But they all have to come in order. Total time and general PIC time first, then multi, then turbine, then PIC turbine. Multi turbine with low total time is like all icing and no cake. Anyway, back to this pilot shortage. There is none, you just have to be very competetive.
 
If you see Kits career progression and the number of failures he has had, you would see Kit is the wrong guy to giving advice.
 
Kit's career progression

Country Wild said:
If you see Kits career progression and the number of failures he has had, you would see Kit is the wrong guy to giving advice.
Unless I am wrong about the "Capitol Airlines" for which he flew, Capitol merged with United in the early sixties. So, you can't blame that one on Kit. Unless, again, another Capitol came along later.

SkyWestCRJPilot and C141FE, above, are absolutely correct about competitive quals and digging up contact information yourself. Especially these days with the internet. You can even find good pilot resume formats on the internet. In the late '80s, though, it indeed seemed so easy. I knew of a guy whom the commuters picked up with nothing but instructing experience. I think he might have lied about his turbine experience. When I started at ERAU in late 1988, the commuters and freight were picking up Riddle instructors left and right. All they had was instructing experience. There were a couple of gals who were hired from Hawthorne College with only their single-engine ratings. The school got them their multis and MEIs and they were gone in about a year with only about 200-300 of multi and not even their ATPs. So, yes, it seemed easy. But, again, the truth is, it is not easy at all.
 
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This guy doesnt know when to stop he just bought Flight Crews International, that was a decent source of info till he bought it. Now hes going to take it and stick it to pilots double the price.Membership was a buck thirty a year now its jumping to 250 I am not going to renew my subscription when it expires.
 
Isn't Darby a pilot for UAL? If they, God forbid, liquidate, he might get a chance to test this "pilot-shortage" theory for himself.

The thing I hate about AirInc. is the interview-prep cottage industry that has sprung up around Darby. IMHO, one particular airline interview became almost impossible, unless you spent a lot of money on consultants and mock interviews and all that nonsense. A superior pilot without the expensive prep interviews like a monkey compared to an average guy that paid for all the answers to the test. If enough guys know all the questions beforehand, the standard is raised to a level that requires buying the interview prep, instead of one's own merit.
 
Having worked at Air Inc approximately 2 years ago I can side with both views on this board.
To put Air Inc. in perspective you have to consider that the internet has become the primary source of info for the airlines and airline interviews gouge. Prior to the internet there was really no single readily available source of info other then friend of a friend or Air Inc. However, the internet has made Kit's business irrelelvent. Any prospective pilot can gather the relevent info via the internet and network via the internet far better then what you might gather at an Air Inc, seminar. The info Kit diseminates at those conferences is the same old stuff he has been kicking out 5 or more years ago. It sounds good but is highly suspect.

Basically, times have changed and Kit has failed to broaden his business plan to capture other opportunities. With the ongoing furloughs he could have made a windfall by addressing the realities of losing your airline career and moving on to something other profession. He is unable to do this because he has no other experience then the airline undustry.

Cheers
 
for who

This is really a case of do you want someone else to do some of the work for you at a price or do you want to take the time and do it yourself.

What needs to be remembered here is that Kit or AEPS or Pilotstaff.cv or Climbto350 need is a realtionshhip with the companies. In the end, their success depends on that for if they are successful with that relationship, you guys will pay them whether you like them or not.
 
I agree, Dualrated, and the overall effect is a "blanding down" of all potential pilots. I doubt that many of the interesting characters I've flown with would even be considered today. Not when there are two dozen navy-blue-suited clones available, all spouting out the same answers.

(I've had a moustache since I was sixteen, but I have shaved it off for the two major interviews I've had. Why? Because everybody else does, because some "expert" at Airinc said to. Can't show any individualism, can we?)

The VERY EXPERIENCE that would make a safe, conscientious airline pilot also ruins your interview presence. After enough years of dodging storms, making command decisions, and being responsible for multi-million dollar aircraft and all aboard, you just can't bend yourself into that sanitized box that is required to compete. So they hire the clones. It certainly doesn't make for a stronger airline industry.
 
The void Kit fills

The deal with Kit is that he advertises, and, perhaps, panders to the pilot masses. So many people want to be professional pilots and Kit sells them that dream. He provides an entry with his materials.

I really have no problem with the basic premise of providing a resource to gain entry to the process. To the layman, professional aviation is a kind of arcane, labyrinthine, secret society. You need a place to start. Lou Smith started FAPA to help military pilots find that start. I recall that FAPA was foundering when Kit came along. Marketing genius that he is, Kit contrived the pilot shortage, promoted it, expanded his advertising to the pilot masses, made professional aviation sound so easy, and built his empire. Sadly, fifteen years ago, there was no internet in the form it is today. Kit was The Man.

Now, if there was a resource available that supplied honest and candid information about the risks v. rewards of the career, was entirely candid about the pilot non-shortage, and gave instruction on the job-seeking process, there would be no need for Kit.

Basically, times have changed and Kit has failed to broaden his business plan to capture other opportunities. With the ongoing furloughs he could have made a windfall by addressing the realities of losing your airline career and moving on to something other profession . . . .
And, in so doing, perform a real public service for pilots and maybe sow the seeds for repeat business if those pilots decide to come back. However, how can you expect someone who contrives half-truths to suddenly develop scruples? Leopards can't change their spots, you know.
 
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The only good thing about a United bankruptcy is the thought of that con-artist shoving out the 200 clams for one of his own pony shows. I'm sad to hear he bought FCI, that was a good rag to find a job..........
 

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