Don't give guys who Bought their Jobs a

[ChinaClipper]

break!!!! Had about enough of this low brow BS from the same old cast. Anyone who PFT'd should be skinned, starting with the lips. Selling out the profession BEFORE you get your uniform makes you UNABLE to pass judgement on ANYTHING related to "the profession". JO co-invented PFT @ Coex and WAY too many of you loudmouths ponied up the cash. Paying your dues DOESN'T mean I had to cut mommy and daddy's lawn for free all year in exchange for $15,000 plus, for a nifty uniform. This is giving concessions BEFORE you first day on the job.....must be something Freudian about that.......Scum

 

[mckpickle]

Shut up moron. There is a difference. I can see with your vast experience that you were not hired durring the hay-day 96-97 period when most commuters WERE PFT.

You can also tell why you think the way you do with you "I have 2000" pic and ex UAL IAM Mechanic, disertation on the left.

And just so you know. We spend our negotiating leverage to ensure that no one at COEX ever has to PFT again. How many others have that written into their contract?

 

[starchkr]

How do you tell the difference between someone who paid and someone who didn't? Do you just hate everyone who flies for a certain airline because they had PFT in their past? What if i go fly for an airline that used to PFT but now does not? Am i now treated like i PFT'd by you...and if not how can you tell the difference between who did and didn't at that said airline?

I'm not trying to start anything, just wondering how to tell.

 

[RimRaider]

Mesaba has never PFT and its in the contract!

 

[OldManPilot]

It seems to me regardless of whether a person pays for training or not, they still have to pass the interview as well as the initial training. If they can pass through those hoops, then they have the same rights and privelidges as anyone else.

I would love to be a millionaire, but just because I'm not, I don't hate those who are.

What prompts this anger toward PFT's? If you got the $$, then why not use it if it helps? I did not PFT, but if I had the resources way back when, I certainly would have considered it.

Never have I climbed into the cockpit and had somebody ask if I had paid for my training.

Just my opinion

 

[captjim]

It's been my experience that people who are losing a debate brings up a red harring. 70% of the pilots at XJT didn't pay for training, but over 80% of MESA pilots voted yes on that POS contract.

Next subject!

 

[Ben Franklin]

Anyone who PFT'd should be skinned, starting with the lips.

Since you're such a stand up guy, we can start with your lips.

The ones between your legs.



http://www.nvlt.nl/archief/aviation_maintenance_us_sal_2002.htm

However, training is an area that has shown improvement each year since our 1998 survey. Back then, 58 percent of respondents said they received company-paid initial and recurrent training. For this year’s survey, 66 percent did. The percentage of employers reported to offer no training has also declined, from 25 percent in 1998 to 21 percent today.


Wow, so 1 out of every 3 mechanics back in the mid to late 90's had to pay for his own training?

Oh... wait, it seems that if you didn't pay for it then they just wouldn't give you any training at all.

Shut the f**k up, A$$HOLE and go make false claims about how tough you are on the kindegarten boards.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[xdashdriver]

What's amazing to me is how some of the whiners on here ever got an airline job in the first place. They say that the interview is mostly about attitude, so how did the nay-sayers here get a job with all the negativity that is inherent in their personalities? It's something which I really wonder about. So either attitude is not important in being an airline pilot, or some people on here bullcrapped their way through the interview and got away with it.

"Ahh, but" I hear you say, "our attitude only got bad when PFT / bad contracts / yadayadayada" came around. I'm sorry, but that doesn't fly. YOU decide your attitude, not your circumstances. If you hate your circumstances so bad and think you've been badly done to, then by all means, quit your job and go somewhere where you think it's better.

Quit blaming everyone else for the fact that you're miserable and don't want to change your attitude.

 

[Cows Go Moo]

It's been my experience that people who are losing a debate brings up a red harring. 70% of the pilots at XJT didn't pay for training, but over 80% of MESA pilots voted yes on that POS contract.

For the record, the Mesa yes-vote was ~78% (78.2 if my memory is right). No need to exaggerate to make a point.

 

[captjim]

For the record, the Mesa yes-vote was ~78% (78.2 if my memory is right). No need to exaggerate to make a point.

Sorry that I exaggerated 1.8%! Sombody take me out and shoot me for such a huge lie.

 

[Cows Go Moo]

Sorry that I exaggerated 1.8%! Sombody take me out and shoot me for such a huge lie.

I merely wanted to get the info straight. There's a difference between 78 and "over 80". The problem I have is that your assertion and therefore your argument is based on inaccurate and overstated figures. The Mesa-bashers have enough to gripe about without resorting to bad info.

 

[ChinaClipper]

PFT rationalizers..

are out in force...Where did you guys get all the rage? Too many weekends at Micheal Jacksons house? My my, we are touchy when discussing how some folks got there first real job, even if Mommy and Daddy BOUGHT it for you. BTW I left the Air Force for UAL; Maybe I shoulda stooped to asking for Parental Welfare as you dufuses did, but integrity still counts in some parts of the world. I can also see why you'll wanna fix those regional contracts...judging by the poor attitude, lack of maturity and appriciation for the history of the airline business, you're gonna be there a LONG time. When you PFT'd maybe you shoulda asked for the "Good Airline Career Option/ Positive Mental Attitude" option, when you bought your job, I think it was advertised for only an additional $15,000. PS The guys I wrenched with would have tossed your smart little mouth out in the Bay and called it a public service. I bet your crew mates can't WAIT for the end of the month.....BTW the reason I didn't get "hired" in the heyday, if buying your job is what you call it, is because I DIDN'T BUY IT, you did, now live with it ya snotyy little sanctimonious wanker......

 

[Palerider957]

Enough already...

.....let this thread die.....

 

[46Driver]

Hey tough guy!
Lot of my buds earned their money for PFT flying Marine Corps helos in Somalia, Bosnia, and Haiti - not exactly Daddy's money. They had to PFT because the airlines didn't count helo time. I don't blame them one bit. Matter of fact, your tax dollars might have paid for the PFT via the GI Bill.......

 

[deadstick]

Hey tough guy!
Lot of my buds earned their money for PFT flying helos in Somalia, Bosnia, and Haiti - not exactly Daddy's money. They had to PFT because the airlines didn't count helo time. I don't blame them one bit.

Can I get an AMEN!?!?! Thank God we finally got some fling-wing folks in management who don't suffer from cranial-rectal inversion and who know that helo pilots know how to fly an airplane. Along that line, there was a former Marine on here inthe last week or so who couldn't get his foot in the door with over 2000TT turbine PIC. He was a Harrier pilot. I bet he knows how to maintain directional control.

Best of luck with the Homer-Jet, Marine.

Scouts out!

 

[starchkr]

His last sentence explains it all... let it go man.

 

[Stinkbug]

"Let this thread die", huh? Well, the Mesa-bashers seem content enough to spew their horse sh!t for weeks on end; I say let's keep this one rolling!

You know, I don't have a problem in the world on a personal level with anyone who PFT'd back in the day, but I think ChinaClipper's making a good point about the hypocrisy of some of you. You'll sit there behind your keyboard and mouth ad infinitum about how the Mesa yes-voters sold out just to get ahead ("shiny new jets" and all), yet you conveniently forget that those of you who bought your jobs did exactly the same thing. I don't want to hear about how "everyone was doing it" and you "couldn't get hired otherwise", because there are plenty of us that found another way to reach our goals.

Bottom line is you were too impatient to wait for a legitimate opportunity, so you jumped on the bandwagon in an effort to gain that all-important seniority number, never mind how fundamentally wrong it was. Again, I truthfully don't care if you PFT'd. I have a number of friends who did and I don't think any less of them (it was the right decision for them at the time - who am I to judge?). But I'm pretty sure they're not on here saying hateful things every chance they get about the Mesa pilots. C'mon, can't you see how hypocritical you're being? For crying out loud, at least admit it - you didn't agree with the whole PFT concept, but you gave in and ponied up the dough because it was the first interview you were offered, or you really wanted to get on with a jet carrier, or you just were tired of instructing, or any of a number of other lame excuses.

In my estimation, ChinaClipper isn't losing this argument. He's making a statement, and I have to admit it's pretty humorous watching you guys search for a comeback that won't sound like you're back-pedalling.

 

[Riddlebratt]

BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!! So what if someone wants to spend all of that money for their training.....That his f@#$ing business...How many times on this site are we going to beat this same dead ass horse..... Now have a eggroll and shut the f.... up.

 

[Ben Franklin]

Re: PFT rationalizers..

are out in force...Where did you guys get all the rage? Too many weekends at Micheal Jacksons house? My my, we are touchy when discussing how some folks got there first real job, even if Mommy and Daddy BOUGHT it for you. BTW I left the Air Force for UAL; Maybe I shoulda stooped to asking for Parental Welfare as you dufuses did, but integrity still counts in some parts of the world. I can also see why you'll wanna fix those regional contracts...judging by the poor attitude, lack of maturity and appriciation for the history of the airline business, you're gonna be there a LONG time. When you PFT'd maybe you shoulda asked for the "Good Airline Career Option/ Positive Mental Attitude" option, when you bought your job, I think it was advertised for only an additional $15,000. PS The guys I wrenched with would have tossed your smart little mouth out in the Bay and called it a public service. I bet your crew mates can't WAIT for the end of the month.....BTW the reason I didn't get "hired" in the heyday, if buying your job is what you call it, is because I DIDN'T BUY IT, you did, now live with it ya snotyy little sanctimonious wanker......

Thanks for the vagina monologue, you pu$$y.

re-read my previous post about your brethren paying for their own training:

http://www.nvlt.nl/archief/aviation...us_sal_2002.htm

However, training is an area that has shown improvement each year since our 1998 survey. Back then, 58 percent of respondents said they received company-paid initial and recurrent training. For this year’s survey, 66 percent did. The percentage of employers reported to offer no training has also declined, from 25 percent in 1998 to 21 percent today.


I think that you are just crying becuase you have a small penis and no flying job. I spent a total of $23,500 on ALL of my flight training and four-year degree and was a 121 captain at COEX by the time I was 25 years old.

You're just jealous.

By the way, how's that career at UAL working out for you?

shut the F**K up.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Stinkbug]

If you spent $23,500 on all your college AND your flight training then you must be awfully smart (no sarcasm intended). Having saved so much money over most of your peers, I guess I don't blame you for buying your job. That $12,000 would have burned a hole in my pocket, too. Unfortunately, I had three times that much in college and flight training loans to pay back.

By the way, I'm not gonna fight his battles for him, but ChinaClipper's an Airbus FO for UAL's competitor in Denver. Sounds like to me like his career is working out just fine.