Don Carty Has No Shame!!!!

[FEDUPPILOT]

Reposted from an APA email:

To all pilots,

As some of you may have heard, C A R T Y, wife, & son went to PVR on Feb 14, and are returning tomorrow (Monday).

The flight was oversold and 3 First Class travelers had to be bought off the trip to get ***** & family on board.
Even though the rules limit a buy off to $300, these 3 pax were bought off for $500 each.

$1500 total loss ot the company. No, it will not break us.

But coupled with Jane Allen's debacle going on vacation two months ago buying off first class pax for her family, you can imagine the message this sends about the depth of the danger of the company going bankrupt, or management's true attitude towards this possibility. They either are secure enough in their inside knowledge that this danger is not as imminent as they claim in the press; or, bankruptcy *is* a real imminent threat, but it does not worry them--they are secure enough in their seats of power that bankruptcy simply means "re-structuring labor contracts" and is no real penalty to them, for if it was, as leaders of the company, they would not dare flaunt such high-profile, in-your-face extravagances.

Rumor has it that agents all over the system are angry. In DFW, agents are passing out photocopies of the PNR and the cost to buy off the 3 passengers.

Rumors abound of a ramp worker slow down at DFW today.

The Dallas Morning News has been notified and is very interested in this story.

The Ft Star Telegram has been notified also.

They are due top arrive from PVR tomorrow--how about a welcoming committee of employees in uniform to meet them as they come out of customs? They are due in at 7:12 p.m., flt. 322 from PVR-DFW.

One pilot phoned a domicile rep to say "How dare he ask for money because the company is going bankrupt and then he displaces 3 revenue passengers at a cost of $1500 to go to PVR."

 

[Slim]

Once, again..........

This is an example of poor management and the lack of leadership at most airlines.

A manager goes about business as usual and tells labor "I'll take a pay cut if you do first!" The same manager also tells workers "I take a pay cut every time the value of AMR stock goes down." Bob Crandall said those words two different times when questioned about his requests for pay cuts and productivity improvements. I was employed at AMR when he made the statements. I do believe them.

Carty seems no better. His actions, and those of Jane Allen, are not the actions of leaders. Leaders are willing to do the same things their employees are and demonstrate same by doing so first!

Carty, and his team, have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot frequently. Did Carty and Allen need wheelchairs getting on and off the airplane?

 

[Slim]

BTW........

Any report on if a welcoming commitee met Carty, et al?

 

[Delta3]

I heard when Pan Am was going under, the CEO's wife started taking the champagne and cutlery from the First Class Cabin.

 

[FL000]

I heard when Pan Am was going under, the CEO's wife started taking the champagne and cutlery from the First Class Cabin.

Same thing happened on Air Force One at the end of the last administration. Money doesn't buy class.

 

[njcapt]

As some of you may have heard, C A R T Y, wife, & son went to PVR on Feb 14, and are returning tomorrow (Monday).

The flight was oversold and 3 First Class travelers had to be bought off the trip to get ***** & family on board.
Even though the rules limit a buy off to $300, these 3 pax were bought off for $500 each.

$1500 total loss ot the company. No, it will not break us.

But coupled with Jane Allen's debacle going on vacation two months ago buying off first class pax for her family, you can imagine the message this sends about the depth of the danger of the company going bankrupt, or management's true attitude towards this possibility.

I don't know what's going on over there at AMR, but Crandall never would have paid $1500 to bump pax off for his family - he would be too cheap. Maybe he would just have some of the staff tough guys rough them up in the bathroom prior to boarding so they 'decide to take another flight'.

At ATA, George would never try to bump pax, he'd just have one of his Lears take the kids on vacation with him. He did step on his d!ck, though, by listing the staff of his 120 ft yacht as business expenses to ATA. No word yet on the process to list non rev for a ride on the big boat.

 

[TWA Dude]

Re: Re: Don Carty Has No Shame!!!!

In the interest of completeness I'm posting the official management explanation:

The oversale on American Airlines' flight 323 February 14, Dallas/Fort Worth to Puerto Vallarta, was handled in a routine manner. When agents determined the flight was overbooked and there may be a possible oversale, volunteers were solicited and compensated with $500 travel vouchers, well within prescribed limits for international travel ($800 maximum). No passengers were bumped involuntarily and no passengers were bumped from first class. In fact, one coach passenger was even upgraded to first class


All volunteers were accommodated on another flight two hours later, just as procedures specify. Mr. Carty and his son flew in coach and Mrs. Carty flew in first class, by the way the reservations were made more than a month in advance. When Mr. Carty and his family arrived at the gate, the oversale had been resolved and neither he nor his family were aware of it. In the event of an oversale, employees traveling on A1 to A5 passes are not required to give up their seats. A1 are crewmembers traveling to assignment, A2 are AA officers (business and personal travel), A3 are deadheading crewmembers, A4 are level 8 managing directors and A5 are union officers (business and personal travel).


I trust that Mr. Carty's travel is not being used as an opportunity to derail the constructive discussions with management and employees currently underway. If anyone understands the seriousness of the challenges our company faces, Mr. Carty certainly does.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Just the Facts, please!

As a furloughee, I would love to jump on the CEO bashing wagon. However, I would tend to believe the official report posted by TWA dude.

I flew Mr. Carty and family from STL to DFW last October a few weeks before my furlough. His wife sat in F/C and he sat in Y/C with his son who is too young to travel in First. He did not pre-board with his son; he waited in line with everyone else, and followed all the rules.

As far as the Crandall comments, I worked at AA when he was CEO and had witnessed him travel with his AMR groupies, all in first class. He always traveled with his ego, limos, etc.

In contrast, Mr. Carty often travels without the "groupies" and rents economy cars and drives himself.

Now if you want to rip on the direction and leadership of the company, go ahead, but to repeat information without personal knowledge is petty.

Jeff

 

[Medivacer]

There's always two sides to every story.

I think we've seen both sides and I think I can comment.

What kind of leader gives up his salary in one way to help a cash strapped company after Sept. 11th?

I'd say a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed good one.





If you want to do it right, get a Canadian to do it.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Silver Lining

Don't know how popular these flights are for AA but it is good to hear the plane was full. Hope AA made money on it!

 

[TWA Dude]

Re: Silver Lining

Don't know how popular these flights are for AA but it is good to hear the plane was full. Hope AA made money on it!

Lot's of flights are full these days because ticket prices are at a twenty-year low. Unfortunately the majors are losing around $3000 per takeoff. Only the Low Cost Carriers are able to make a profit on leisure fares. We need a healthy business environment back before the majors can make money again.

 

[njcapt]

Re: Re: Silver Lining

Lot's of flights are full these days because ticket prices are at a twenty-year low. Unfortunately the majors are losing around $3000 per takeoff. Only the Low Cost Carriers are able to make a profit on leisure fares. We need a healthy business environment back before the majors can make money again.

Not all the LCC's can make money in this environment. Downward pressure on ATA's ticket prices (due at least in part to the below cost discounting by AA and UAL) have dumped our average ticket price by $20 in the past year. If our management is to be believed (and I don't have any reason not to in this case), if last year's ticket prices were still being sold we would be dramatically profitable instead of marginally in the hole. Nothing more depressing than kicking non revs off a completely full flight and still not making any money off of it.

 

[dualrated]

Let's not miss the point here. The point isn't whether or not pax were bumped, or whether Crandall would have done the same thing. The point is that Enron Don p!ssed away AMR money ($1500 to buy off three pax) so he and his family could go on a weekend getaway.

AMR is in big trouble. We are headed for bankruptcy. Carty, who was paid $7.1 million in 2001, is demanding the employees give up their benefits, pay, and in some cases, their jobs. And as the walls are falling down around us, he burns AMR money to buy off paying customers so he can take his family to Mexico.

Carty is an embarassment.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Is it verifiable - That's the point!

Dualrated:

My point is can it be verified? My personal experience and observation does not reflect the acquisation. More over the people that are making the most of the noise don't appear to have ties to AMR, let alone to be in a position to know the facts.

I just hate smoke screens that take the focus off the real issues. If we are to heat up the hot-oil and light the torches, I just want to make sure we are doing it for the right reasons.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

So post it!

Fastpilot

eom

 

[altimaklr]

nevermind

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

FastPilot, I don't know if what you posted was supposed to be for public consumption. It may be perfectly legal, but just don't want to see anyone get in trouble.

 

[mackinhoes]

Huh? What's that about fastpilot?

Anyway, when you make as much as Don Carty makes, he should pay for his danm tickets. Chump change to him. If he's willing to "give up" his salary to help the airline, then he can pay for his tickets. Dude is rich enough to buy fractional time. Why not do that and avoid the embarrassment and hostility it generates with the rank and file.

I'll bet Carty's net worth is well over $50,000,000.

The symbolic value of what he did will hurt him badly.

Penny wise and pound foolish. Just ask Martha Stewart about saving $45,000 on insider trading and getting pounded in the stock market for $200,000,000.

 

[dualrated]

Jeff,

I didn't think that verification was even an issue here, because a management spokesman confirmed it. What else needs to be verified? I appreciate your position and past experience with Carty, but I think this incident focuses the attention on the real issue. The real issue here is our management team.

Fifteen hundred bucks worth of vouchers isn't the issue. That's not going to make or break AMR. That amount wouldn't keep anyone from being furloughed, or get you recalled any sooner. We both know that. The issue here isn't even that we are being asked to make huge, unprecedented sacrifices while our CEO can't even be bothered to wait for the next flight and save the company a few bucks. The issue is that Carty is so unbelievably out-of-touch with his employees that he thought no one would notice when he pulled a stunt like this. They noticed. Within hours, the paperwork from the flight and the pax bump was photocopied and spread around DFW in crewrooms and break rooms.

This is the guy that is supposed to navigate the ship through the straits. This is the guy that we are supposed to trust with our concessions, with our careers. He wants $1.8 billion from us, and he's just shown us, in front of God and everybody, that he can't even be trusted with a lousy $1500 bucks.


By the way, I have ties to AMR. At least for now. I'm guessing I'll be furloughed when Carty "leads" us into bankruptcy this summer.

Good luck to you, Jeff. You are probably a lot more optimistic about AAL than I am, and I envy you for it.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

1/2 empty vs 1/2 full? It's just at 1/2!

I just wanted some facts and I got them, thanks.

I first started at AA in 1989 and have been on furlough for 3.5 months, I didn't get the memo.

Dualrated: I don't know about optimist, I just like to get the facts before I make judgements. I hope the company can get back on track. However, after loosing my seat and seniority, I am looking for other employment. If I get a good gig, I will leave all this BS behind and never flip another switch for the AMR corp....or AMR LLC!!!

 

[LXApilot]

Airline Management

Another classic example of Inept and Misguided management. Just because someone has a bean counting degree from Harvard or Yale dosen't mean that they can run an airline. Read the books "hard landing", "turbulent skies" and "flying the line" if you have any ideas that the airlines ever gained anything from managements self-centered and mis-informed decisions. With the salaries paid to upper management- they have no liable stake in the company. If Carty can't be trusted with $1500, then how can he be trusted with the $1.8 billion he is asking for from the hourly wage earners on the front lines? If the employees are serious about their company take some accountability - don't sit back and let there be 1 driver and 100,000 passengers at AMR! When Carty drives the airline into the ground this summer don't sit back and say 'it wasn't our fault- it's they and them out there-' you've got to communicate with your management and be innovative and enthusiastic about your jobs. Most first class passengers flying on major airlines are return travelers who have lucrative and long standing accounts with those airlines- that's the bread and butter- and Carty (your public figurehead and spokesmen) just explained to them the regard and value that the struggling airline places on their business. A two hour delay in a business persons schedule might mean a misconnect, a missed business meeting, and a long time before they choose to spend money for a first class ticket on AA in the future. I am a HUGE supporter of the major airlines (especially the big 3) and want to see those birds dominating the skies all over the world- but until misguided management actually has a stake in the company, real understanding and relationship with the employees, and an understanding of what todays travellers demand from a full-service airline, how can we expect to see those airlines (UAL, USA and AAL) return to profitability? After all, the book "hard landing"
clearly states that Herb Kelleher flies UAL and AAL first-class from DFW to his business meetings in the United States. And he pays full fare for those tickets!

 

[CatYaaak]

Let's not miss the point here. The point isn't whether or not pax were bumped, or whether Crandall would have done the same thing. The point is that Enron Don p!ssed away AMR money ($1500 to buy off three pax) so he and his family could go on a weekend getaway.

..And as the walls are falling down around us, he burns AMR money to buy off paying customers so he can take his family to Mexico.

I thought the oversale was completed by the time he and his family arrived, and he wasn't even aware of it. If that's true, then your accusations have no merit.

It sounds like your problem has more to do with the fact that he took a little trip with his family. They probably don't see him very much these days.

 

[gopherflight]

It was in bad taste what Carty did, if in fact he was responsible for the pax getting bumped. But at least he's not pissing away thousands more to fly his family to PVR on a private jet or a fractional carrier.

 

[CFI'er]

Olive Saver

I read an article about the airlines and cost cutting. AA’s Crandall was criticized for eliminating 2 olives per salad which saved the airline $500,000 a year. It seems like airline management is always look at through a magnifying glass and critiqued for every thing they do.

 

[njcapt]

It was in bad taste what Carty did, if in fact he was responsible for the pax getting bumped. But at least he's not pissing away thousands more to fly his family to PVR on a private jet or a fractional carrier.

Uhhh... if he chartered an aircraft to take his family to PVR he would have been SPENDING HIS OWN MONEY (which I assume he has plenty of). In this case he - apparently - flagrantly misused the revenue bumping process to waste company funds and take his family on vacation. Bad taste is far down the list of grievances over this situation. The fact that he thought this would go un-noticed by the rank and file highlights his cluelessness.

 

[justApilot]

CFI'er............... I read an article about the airlines and cost cutting. AA’s Crandall was criticized for eliminating 2 olives per salad which saved the airline $500,000 a year. It seems like airline management is always look at through a magnifying glass and critiqued for every thing they do.


CFI'er....this is actually urban legend

 

[mackinhoes]

Back to the top for this thread.

The point I was trying to make (and which LXApilot elaborated on) is that it is very bad leadership and PR to do what Carty did. $1500 isn't the point. Carty can waste that on a business suit he might only wear one time. Dude has tons of dough and could very easily avoid the appearance of insensitivity to AMR's situation by buying tickets on some other airline, on a charter or fractional jet. He can afford it! I don't begrudge the guy taking a weekend trip with the wife and kid.

It just plain looks bad to publicly pee away any company money.