Doing the job

[no1pilot2000]

I have been visting this web site for a while and have read alot of threads about being a pilot for the major airline, be it Southwest, Air Tran, and others. Ever since 9/11, how has your careers as pilots changed, or stayed the same? What means did you use to use to get the training to become a pilot? If there were a young person who wanted to pursue a career as an airline pilot, would you support or discourage their decision and why?

 

[Quimby]

This should be good.

 

[Quack]

i think its fair to say that there are very few people who have benefited in this career or at least made it into something since 9/11. The career expectations for almost everyone in the industry have gone nowhere but down. look at what's happened with the majors with furloughs, ;oss of scope and pay, pensions taken away, etc, and how far off it is now from where it was just 10 years ago. Then you look at the regionals and its even worse. No progression whatsoever, deplorable pay and schedules, and the lacking quality of life. i would never ever on my grave let anyone get into this without a degree in something completely non aviation related, and make sure that they know exactly what they are getting themselves into.

 

[hyper]

I have been visting this web site for a while and have read alot of threads about being a pilot for the major airline, be it Southwest, Air Tran, and others. Ever since 9/11, how has your careers as pilots changed, or stayed the same? What means did you use to use to get the training to become a pilot? If there were a young person who wanted to pursue a career as an airline pilot, would you support or discourage their decision and why?

Oh, the irony of asking this question on the most bitter forum of this message board.....

If you're ready to sit for hours on end in close confines with someone of a completely different personality or belief set and then trash them at first opportunity,

If you're ready to spend more money to get there than you'll ever make back,

If you're prepared to work in an industry where no one works WITH each other (management, FAs, pilots, MX, etc.) to create a synergy to achieve a common goal,

Then I'd say your half way there.

If you absolutely, positively have to fly for a living, look outside the airlines.

 

[RadioClash]

After 10 years in the industry I quit to be a police officer. Never been happier. To each his own.

 

[hyper]

After 10 years in the industry I quit to be a police officer. Never been happier. To each his own.

I'd do the same if the pay was worth the risk......wait.....nevermind.

 

[no1pilot2000]

I while back, I spoke to someone who was the head of the aviation degree program at a local college. He was an air force pilot who left the service and went into the A.F. Reserve flying C-130's. He spends most of his time these days deployed overseas flying various missions. He was also a first officer for U.S. Airways many years before 9/11. Evern though he liked flying, working as an airline pilot made the job less enjoyable and he quit his job as a pilot for U.S. Airways to teach (which he really enjoys). He told me that good aviation jobs are:
1. Aircraft Mechanic
2. Certain Management jobs in aviation
3. Becoming a part time flight instructor. Alot of p/t CFI's use these jobs as a paid hobby than a career.
4. If you can't find a job in any of the above careers, no job in aviation is preferable.

He told me that SWA or Airtran might be good companies to work for, but that's about it. He says some of his former aviation degree students got careers flying planes in the Air force and they seem to enjoy their jobs.

 

[Monster Buck]

After 10 years in the industry I quit to be a police officer. Never been happier. To each his own.

really?........why are you on the major airline pilot boards then if you are so happy to be gone?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Airtran A good job? I defer to the "Someone please buy AAI" thread.

 

[Tweaker]

"really?........why are you on the major airline pilot boards then if you are so happy to be gone? "

He is on here prolly to remind him of his terrific decision making abilities (becoming a JBT) as well as to get our "learn-ed" (sarcasm) takes on current aviation events.

Maybe he just likes sharing bandwidth with people who hate their life choices and bash each other with the wild abandon of a Bonobo monkey with a rampaging case syphillus.

Who knows? Some people pay women to crush their genitalia with high heeled shoes. No one really understands anyone else's motivation. That makes life more inerestin', don't ya think?

 

[Tweaker]

I have been visting this web site for a while and have read alot of threads about being a pilot for the major airline, be it Southwest, Air Tran, and others. Ever since 9/11, how has your careers as pilots changed, or stayed the same? What means did you use to use to get the training to become a pilot? If there were a young person who wanted to pursue a career as an airline pilot, would you support or discourage their decision and why?

This job (it ceased being a career as of 2001) has gone from the biggest hiring boom evar, (of which I rode most of by working 7 days a week while "paying my dues"), to a historic plummet to horrible depths.

I, and most of us, would never have committed to the $ and terrible quality of life required to get your foot in the door at a "legacy" airline.
1) the "legacy" is extinct - no more great pay (but for the bald grey baby boomers), no generous time off, no more respect from any quarters
2) the price to pay play is too great - unsafe working conditions (fatigue & short-sighted management), pay such that you mortgage your present for a non-existant future, overrated flying experience

What do you get at a major? $25,000 to start and a furlough or 3 in your first 10 years.

Means to get into the industry - Aside from the old fashioned CFI/night cargo/regional route, my father's love, hard work and foresight to save for the $100K investment in my 4 yr deg + ratings. He passed away within weeks of me making it to a Part 121 - I hope he felt as proud as I was grateful and fortunate. Massive school loans will place you in a position that you may never get out from under, and will SEVERELY limit your options as far as starting over in a new career!

Recommendations?
I would try not to push someone in either direction as far as a choice of job, but I am sure I would be clearly biased by my own personal experiences. I would say that barring solutions/improvements to certain aspects of the industry,* it is a longshot and a bad investment on paper to begin this journey. The intangibles that are unique to a prospective pile-it would be carrying on a family tradition, overwhelming passion, and a really massive level of tolerance for suffering.

Here is a good indicator - Compare the index funds that track market wide progress like NASQ -QQQ and the DOW etc. with that of the airlines as a whole. Historical ave. earnings in the US market is 8% increase per annum(not this decade!). Airlines, I believe have neither gained, nor lost $ in the entire history since the 1930's. A $1000 investment in 1935 would be worth $1000 in 2000! That is remarkable in its horrible performance. In the modern (post 1978 de-reg era) airlines make $100-500 million for a few years, and then lose $1-3 Ba-Ba-BILLION at least once a decade. CEO's may have charisma, but lack sufficient skills or demonstrable positive results. They get paid, customers get cheap tickets and evar worsening service, the employees get the shaft. COME IN THE WATER IS GREAT!

* solutions/improvements to certain aspects of the industry -
total de-regulation (not semi-regulation as Carter created) or re-regulation

An industry-wide seniority list - starting over, perverted CH11 laws make this job a total luck based endeavor!

A positive resolution to "globalization" in aviation

The end to the war between the states that is Major pilots vs. regional pilots. New kids come in, undercutting and eroding the long term benefits at the majors that they want to get for themselves. (see MESA - which SUCKS btw!) Grey heads (at least their union leadership) shortsightedly places artificial restrictions on the freemarket operation of their own brand in a misguided effort to "protect what is theirs." Both sides shoot selves and each other (think Palestine)

 

[rumrnr78]

I have been visting this web site for a while and have read alot of threads about being a pilot for the major airline, be it Southwest, Air Tran, and others. Ever since 9/11, how has your careers as pilots changed, or stayed the same? What means did you use to use to get the training to become a pilot? If there were a young person who wanted to pursue a career as an airline pilot, would you support or discourage their decision and why?

Good question(s). I think, if anything, this career is a total crap shoot. You have your ratings I assume so I hope you are networking. I have worked hard (still am) to help others and I know they are doing the same.

When I got laid off from my corporate flying job my inbox was stuffed with well wishes and leads. As a banker (in a former life) I never experienced that kind of fraternity.There are a lot of bitter posts on this site but don't take that to be the industry.

I would still recommend this career but I would explain the harsh reality that is aviation.

Cheers-

 

[ATRCAPT]

The piece of advice I wish I gotten was to not be so focused on getting to a major that you pass up other "stepping stone" jobs. Now that I'm at a major I find myself missing some of my past flying jobs that were much more rewarding.