Does The CFI Have To Sign Your Book

[Citationkid]

I'm sure they do have to, but is there a FAR that says your CFI must sign off your book if your not rated in the aircraft. The reason I ask is because I've flown with friends, who are CFI's, but havn't signed off my book. It's no big deal because they are all still around and I can get them to sign it if I need to.

Thanks............

 

[bigD]

Refer to 61.51 - here's an excerpt:

(h) Logging training time. (1) A person may log training time when that person receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.

(2) The training time must be logged in a logbook and must:

(i) Be endorsed in a legible manner by the authorized instructor; and

(ii) Include a description of the training given, the length of the training lesson, and the authorized instructor's signature, certificate number, and certificate expiration date. (emphasis added)


Hope this helps. Don't be afraid of the FAR/AIM!

 

[Citationkid]

Thanks I'll just have to go get them to sign it off.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Were your friends providing instruction to be counted to your pilot requirements or just letting you fly with them?

 

[Citationkid]

Well I was flying if that's what you mean. I wasn't just sitting there. I guess you could say it's towards my PPL.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Well I was flying if that's what you mean. I wasn't just sitting there. I guess you could say it's towards my PPL.

I realize you were flying. I was asking whether you were just flying or did you receive instruction?

I asked because you mentioned that this CFI was a friend, so I thought he might not be your regular instructor.

Not every time you fly, even with a CFI in the airplane, is necessarily an instructional flight. If your friend isn't your regular CFI, maybe he was just letting you fly the airplane without intending it to be an "instructional flight". There are many reasons why he might want to do it this way. CFIs only have to endorse "instruction given".

Did you (or your friend) put information in the "dual" column in your logbook. If the answer is "yes", then it should be endorsed.

 

[toneal]

ya think the CFI wants to put his signature in your logbook for dual received and then you go out and do something boneheaded and have him be somewhat liable because he did give you instruction?

I say just wait until you start training. Dont just go out and look to put hours down. Get some training.

What kind of plane was it?

 

[Night_Flight]

In my opinion, the only flights an instructor must enter into a student’s logbook are flight hours used towards a rating, and those used for currency (Check rides, landings, approaches, BFR, IPC…). It’s all at the discretion of the flight instructor.

If I go fly with a buddy who is working on his commercial certificate and we fly 150nm for a good burger, I don’t have to log anything.

For more details, check out FAR 61.51 – Pilot Logbooks.

-Night_Flight-

 

[cvsfly]

Well I was flying if that's what you mean. I wasn't just sitting there. I guess you could say it's towards my PPL.

There is no way I as a CFI would sign a students logbook "working" on a PPL this way. It doesn't sound like this was training according to any structured course or syllabus. It sounds like it was just a radome opportunity to go flying. It appears your are not of age to be close to the PPL and you are "building" time through opportunities with family and friends. More power to you, but until you finish formal training and get your license those logbook entries are just a novelty. The liability is too great on the CFI who isn't actively involved in a students structured training class.

 

[C150Commuter]

I don't see where the liability comes in. Its not like he's going to go solo the king air, and all you are signing off on is instruction, not certifying his compentency to any level. What's the harm in letting him log some of it. Much more liability if someone in a structured class that you sign off to solo crashes. we have plenty of students that are 14, they come out once a week and solo on their 16th birthday. Also, I'm not sure on this one, but if he is flying and the instructor says it isn't instruction, is that allowed? An unrated pilot flying and not recieving instruction?

 

[avbug]

Read the regulations. Don't postulate, don't ask until you've done your research.

Yes, 61.51 refers to the logging of time. However, it has nothing to do with the obligation of the flight instructor.

If a flight instructor provides flight or ground training, he or she MUST sign the logbook of the person who has received it. The flight instructor must also maintain a record in a logbook or separate document that contains a record of this instruction.

See 14 CFR 61.189(a).

Citationkid appears to be asking if he needs the endorsement of instructors with whom he has flown. The answer, best addressed by Midlifeflyer, is that it depends on the circumstances. If you were not receiving instruction, then the instructor should not endorse your logbook, regardless of the circumstances.

If you were flying an airplane for which you were rated, and were receiving instruction in the airplane, then the instructor MUST endorse your logbook to show the training received. The only liability in this is to the extent that the instruction was received properly. If an instructor provides two hours of multi engine instruction, he or she is not liable if a non-rated pilot flies a multi engine airplane into the ground. Simply because the instruction was given, doesn't make the instructor responsible for anything more than what he or she has agreed to by endorsing the log. As an example, if an instructor provided an hour of stall training in a multi engine airplane to a nonmulti-engine rated pilot, then the instructor has only a duty to have provided proper and acceptable instruction on that one subject.

Weather the student then kills himself or herself in a multi engine airplane while performing stalls, is not relevant, so long as the instruction was properly given, and properly documented. The duty of the instructor is to properly instruct, and to properly document that instruction. The instructor is not inherently tied to the subsequent actions of the student.

Citationkid appears to be stating in this case that he or she flew an airplane, but was not receiving instruction. Further, citationkid appears to be stating indirectly that he or she was sole manipulator of the controls, and therefore wishes to log the time. I must suppose that this time was in aircraft for which citationkid wasn't rated, else he wouldn't need to enquire about getting the endorsement.

If this is the case, and the flying was as sole manipulator without any actual instruction being given, then requesting or receiving the endorsement of an instructor is not appropriate, nor legal.

Night_flight suggested that an instructor is only required to endorse a student's logbook when that instruction is used toward a certificate or rating, or privilege. This is incorrect. An instructor must provide an endorsement for ALL instruction given. An instructor may know or may not know weather the instruction given will eventually be used to qualify for a certificate, rating, or privilege at a later date, and does not have the discretion as to weather to sign the log or not; he or she must sign the logbook of the student for any instruction given, without exception.

 

[avbug]

You could do that, except that the regulation stipulates that you shall sign the logbook, and the logbook is described under 61.51. A scrap of paper might meet the requirements of that part, or not.

When you complete your records as a flight instructor, how do you record the endorsement that you have made? Do you state that you provided instruction to joe smith, and that you signed a scrap of paper telling him so?

Ever thought of insisting that the student purchase and use a logbook, if they don't currently have one?

When a student tells you that they have lost their log, failure to provide them with a new one, or see that they have one, is showing a lack of professionalism. The student already has a problem in coming to you; they have lost their logbook. Help them recreate it, or in the least, get them started on a new one.

Sign a scap of paper and send them on their way? Very unprofessional, and irresponsible.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Sometimes a student shows up without a logbook. My reads of the FAR still says I need to log it. So I've got a pad of paper (like a doctor's RX pad) which I write the details and sign it.... handing it to the student. Logged.

I do something a bit similar but more formal. I put together a multi-part form that I use to record the details of all instructional flights. The student and I both get a copy. It's designed as a backup and more detailed record of the training sometimes briefly written in the remarks section of the logbook.

But it's also come in handy for logbook-less instruction, in which case I recommend that the pilot write up his own entry of the flight and refer to the external document for the endorsement. (or tape it into the back of the logbook).