Does my education even matter?

[chuzie]

I was wondering if my education really even makes a difference in terms of marketability when trying to get an airline job. I have a B.S. in Aeronautics and a Master of Aeronautical Science from Embry-Riddle as well as my powerplant license. Do any of these give me some type of advantage when looking for a pilot slot?



As a side note, I am running down to Flight Safety in Vero week after next to see if that is the way I want to go. Though I am only 24, I just feel like I am running out of time. Two years seems like a long time to get airline ready and quite a long time away from the wife as she is stuck in Tampa. I am sure these are just ignorant perceptions and rather typical of those my age. Patience must be the key here.



Thanks,

Mike

 

[avbug]

Your degrees will help make you competitive, but you need the flight experience. Rushing through the ratings won't get you that experience. Plan on about ten years of struggle to get your career going.

Aviation runs in ten year cycles of prosperity and a stalled state. We're emerging from the stalled state slowly now...by the time you get ready to go, you may be in a good position to ride the front of the wave and get somewhere in your career.

Get used to crackers and ramen.

 

[chuzie]

10 years? I had no idea it was that long. Heck, I would be better off just flying for the military with a 10 year commitment. At least then I would get paid. Does everyone else agree that 10 years is the norm?

 

[de727ups]

It takes years to work your way up in this industry. Having a bunch of degrees helps you check a few boxes but it's really about ratings and what type of flight experience you have. I'd say you are way ahead in the degree area and way behind in the flight experience area.

Basically, it doesn't matter that you went to ERAU, you just get to fill a square with that. The advanced degree? Nobody is gonna care. A powerplant rating? Nice if you want to be a mechanic but it's not something an airline will care about.

You need hours, ratings, and experience.

Did ERAU promise you an airline job as soon as you got your masters?

 

[bobbysamd]

Riddle degrees, FSI flight training, and patience

I was wondering if my education really even makes a difference in terms of marketability when trying to get an airline job. I have a B.S. in Aeronautics and a Master of Aeronautical Science from Embry-Riddle as well as my powerplant license. Do any of these give me some type of advantage when looking for a pilot slot?

I was a flight instructor at ERAU-Prescott from late '88-mid '91. You are in excellent shape with your degrees and mechanic's certificate. Your degrees are from a recognized school and make you eligible and competitive for any company, but no more so than a degree from another school. The mechanic's certificate looks good on your resume and could unlock one or two additional doors.

As a side note, I am running down to Flight Safety in Vero week after next to see if that is the way I want to go. Though I am only 24, I just feel like I am running out of time. Two years seems like a long time to get airline ready and quite a long time away from the wife as she is stuck in Tampa. I am sure these are just ignorant perceptions and rather typical of those my age. Patience must be the key here.

As it turns out, I left Riddle to be a flight instructor at FSI in Vero. I ran into a couple of people who earned their degrees at ERAU and learned to fly at FlightSafety, so what you are proposing isn't uncommon. Although FSI is expensive, you cannot go wrong training there. The ground school is adequate and the flight training is first-rate. Your Riddle education will more than fill any gaps in your FSI ground school.

Two years isn't all that long to go from zero time to the airlines, but expect it to take longer than that. At that point, there may not be many new airline jobs because of the majors' shrinkage and their vending-out of flying to the regionals.

It could take years to get there because of the airlines' hiring backlog, if you even get there at all. The airlines first have to absorb their furloughees before they do any new hiring, with more experienced pilots being next in line for any new jobs. Therefore, if you wait much longer your age eventually could work against you. For all of these reasons, yes, you will have to patient and wait your turn in line.

Good luck with wherever you learn how to fly.

 

[pilotyip]

No, at this time the degrees do not help

Degrees only open doors, TJ PIC gets you the job. TJ PIC counts. If you want to fly for a living you have to fly airplanes. You have to take any job that builds time. For the pro-college crowd Notice I said nothing about not going to college, I am not going to do that until Oct 27th. Degrees only open doors, TJ PIC gets you the job. TJ PIC counts. If you want to fly for a living you have to fly airplanes. You have to take any job that builds time. Look into military flight programs including the Army flight program. Being a graduate from any military flight program makes you competitive. For the pro-college crowd, notice I said nothing about not going to college. We will have a time out until Oct 27th.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

TJPIC is a fairly recent requirement.

Up until around 1998 I believe only FedEx and Southwest had the illusive "1000 hrs PIC turbine requirement".

Some of us moved on without reaching that goal, or reached that goal in aircraft such as the Jetstream, Metro, or Beech 1900 and suddenly find ourselves unqualified in the marketplace.

I agree with YIP. Turbine PIC is the key. But it sure upsets me that that is the case. Had I known it was going to be so important I might have made different choices in my own career in the mid 90s.

Oh well.

 

[pilotyip]

Tj Pic

Right now, that is the case, but June of 2007 that will not be the case. When the next hiring cycle gets hot, like AVBUG says the 10 year cycle has low but growing job demand right now. In June 2007, TJ PIC will not be as important, just because most of those candidates will have jobs and the companies doing hiring will re-defined their hiring minimums. Note: They never lower their standards, they just redefine the competitive candidate.

 

[bobbysamd]

Keys v. locksmithing

Degrees only open doors, TJ PIC gets you the job . . . .

And, in aviation, the larger and more congested your keyring, the better! A person needs every edge, and the degree is a major edge.

For this thread, the debate is academic (sorry) because the thread starter, like Yip, has a Bachelor's and a Master's. But for others who aren't sure, GET THE DEGREE!!

 

[chuzie]

Talk about a reality check. I should have researched this topic a long time ago. I have been in the Air Force since '99 and everything I have done has been in preparation for a flying career. I tried to fly for the AF but they have very few slots available since many of the pilots from the soured industry have come back in seeking jobs. My plan B was to hit the civilian sector and fly for the airlines making good money doing something I love. Heck, my best friend’s dad makes $350K/yr flying left seat in a DC-10 for FedEx. I figured after many years of hard work I too could have achieved such success. From what I can tell, the industry is suffering its typical cyclic downturn coupled with post-911 fallout and thus will change a great deal as such. Perhaps the career that once was very possible is not looking to promising.

I am a hard charger and plan to retire by 55 or 60. That is not going to be possible if I spend 3, 5, or 10 years training and waiting for something that will not necessarily happen. It is a huge gamble! As pilots, we pay nearly as much for our education and training as doctors do and yet we get compensated a fraction $$$. I thought flying would be a career much like Tiger Woods has; we get to do something we love and at the same time get compensated very well. Apparently that is no longer the case and the good ole days are now over.

I hate to be materialistic but perhaps it is necessary for me to wake up and smell the roses. Maybe a managerial or executive job either in the aerospace industry or elsewhere may now be in order. Sure, I will not be as happy as if I was flying but at least I will have good income, security, and piece of mind.

It really sucks to read about all the good folks on this board that are struggling so much and have worked so hard to achieve so little within the industry. You are all underappreciated and I feel for you. Knowing what I know now, I find it difficult to pursue the same avenues, especially considering the changes the industry is going through and the hardships that lay ahead. I mean, the jobs are going to become fewer and far between with the airlines changing and even the ones that are out there will likely be filled by those who are furloughed, etc.

Basically for someone to jump into this industry in this day and age will not be a very wise choice if he/she is looking for good $$$ and job security. Looks like I will be one of those people that will spend the rest of their lives wondering “what if” and going to that 9-5 job every day watching the big jets fly overhead rather than flying them.

I apologize if I sound self righteous or appear to hold the attitude of poor poor pitiful me; I don’t. I am just coming to simple realizations and conclusions that I cannot set myself up for failure or constant struggle.

Do I sound misguided or misinformed?

Thoughts?

 

[de727ups]

"Do I sound misguided or misinformed?"

It's hard to NOT be misinformed when you open up Flying magazine and you see the ads from DCA (Comair Academy), or Gulfstream academy, that make becoming an airline pilot look all so easy.

 

[bobbysamd]

Reality check, indeed

[M]y best friend’s dad makes $350K/yr flying left seat in a DC-10 for FedEx. I figured after many years of hard work I too could have achieved such success . . . . Perhaps the career that once was very possible is not looking to promising.

You were asked above if Riddle gave you a sales pitch to sign up for its aviation degree program. What you are reciting sounds like typical flight school/vocational school sales talk.

So-called career schools, including aviation, paint rosy pictures of their vocations to entice people. You see it all the time on afternoon TV: "EARN GREAT MONEY AND JOIN A RESPECTED PROFESSION!! BECOME A MEDICAL TECHNOLOGIST IN A FEW SHORT MONTHS. MEDICAL TECHNOLOGISTS ARE NEEDED NOW!!!!" And I'm not targeting career college schools only; my paralegal school used similar advertising. Broadcasting schools pitch their wares similarly.

These schools never tell you that you have to start at the bottom and it could take months to get the first job. During this time, you discover that there is no (insert vocation) shortage after all. My paralegal school boasted a 98% placement rate, but it was never specific as to what kind of job or the length of time to get it. If you were hired at $6.50/hour to code documents for litigation, you were regarding as being "placed." A $6.50 job wasn't what the school led to believe you would get on graduation; it made it sound that upon graduation you would be on easy street. E.g., with some flight schools a right side at the regionals or better.

The truth is a school can train you but the rest is up to you. Expect to put forth a lot of effort to get the first job and to work hard in that job and subsequent jobs until you build the experience required at your ultimate career stop. And, at that point, despite predictions of a 2007 hiring boom (I prefer "allegations"), do not expect the airlines to beat a path to your door and fight over you. You will still have to put forth great effort to get an interview, and, if you're lucky, you might get one. As the expression goes, "All things cometh to he who waiteth - while he worketh like hell while he waiteth."

Once more, good luck with your plans.

 

[wakeboard]

I went to Auburn to pursue aviation there, but left after a semester once I realized how much going through a program would slow me down. I got my private last August and I got my Instrument, Commercial, and Multi from March to this August. I have about 330 hours now. I'm currently going to the University of Mississippi as a marketing major. I felt I need to get a more practical degree as a backup plan if something doesn't work out the way I would like it. I'm working on my CFI now and plan to instruct this summer and build my multi time.