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Does JV mean Cabotage?

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densoo

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
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The chief executive officers of Delta Air Lines, Air France and KLM met today with pilot union leaders from their respective airlines to sign a six-way Joint Venture (JV) Protocol which recognizes that a cooperative and productive relationship is essential to the success of the corporations' Joint Venture Agreement, which was established in May 2009. In signing the agreement, the leaders committed to mutual understanding and information sharing between each other concerning all aspects of the agreement and recognize that the success of the Joint Venture will provide benefits and opportunities for all parties.
 
The agreement establishes intent by the parties to provide a seamless high quality travel experience, enable the further development of the transatlantic route structure and increase the profitability of the JV, as well as to strengthen the respective airline hubs. A primary goal of the agreement is to promote the success and prosperity of the JV and all parties to this agreement.
 
"This is a milestone agreement, and I believe it will serve as a template for future labor-management engagement in the industry's globalization arena," said Captain Lee Moak, Chairman of the Delta Master Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association. "Recent joint venture agreements at other properties have alienated labor by treating labor not as a partner, but as just another cost to be managed. In today's global marketplace, that is a formula for disaster. Instead, when the long-term interests of management and labor are aligned, it makes much more sense to engage through a professional working relationship for the benefit of all parties."
 
The Protocol Agreement sets forth an understanding between the parties concerning the Joint Venture and establishes intent to promote the success and prosperity of the Joint Venture. For example, the agreement establishes a metric to help ensure that there is a balance of work between the parties. "As pilot labor, we view it as critically essential that no single corporation or pilot group benefits at the expense of the other, and this agreement helps to establish a level of mutual trust and cooperation between all parties to the agreement" VNV President Captain Evert van Zwol explained. "International joint ventures are the next step in our industry's evolution, and involving labor as a partner at the outset provides for a much greater probability of long-term success. We are pleased that the executives of KLM, Air France and Delta recognize this."
 
In addition to establishing a balance of flying between the carriers, the agreement calls for the corporations to provide their respective pilot unions with "detailed historical and projected operating and financial information on the JV" on a regular basis as well as periodic meetings "to further develop relationships and to share information on the status, progress and future initiatives of the JV, in order to enhance the success of the JV."
 
"This agreement is built upon a cornerstone of collaboration rather than confrontation and on mutual benefit rather than antagonism" said Air France ALPA President Captain Louis Jobard. "Our airline executive teams understand that labor is an important asset in the Joint Venture. This Protocol Agreement helps to establish a strong and stable foundation for the Joint Venture moving forward, which is vitally important to its success."
 
The Joint Venture Protocol Agreement became effective at its signing and remains in effect concurrent with the Joint Venture agreement.
 
Founded in 1931, ALPA represents 54,000 pilots at 36 airlines in the U.S. and Canada. ALPA represents over 12,000 Delta pilots. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org, the Delta MEC website at www.deltapilots.org.
 
The complete text of the agreement can be found on the Delta MEC website, www.deltapilots.org.

http://pr-canada.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=217218&Itemid=36
 
Nope....this prevents the Aer-Lingus-UAL thing from becoming our problem and stops the oceanic whipsaw amongst the Skyteam.

Let's be honest, like most "accords" or "protocols", it's only as good until management decides they want to wipe their A$$ with it.....but, it's better than nothing.
 
Hi!

If it means Cabotage, it would mean the DAL guys would fly over in Europe and take flying from KLM and AF, because the total costs (to the airline) for American pilots are MUCH less than for Euro pilots.
That is why there are now so many US guys at Emirates. They used to have lots more Europeans, but now that hiring/firing has stablized there, the EK Terms and Conditions do not look that great to most European pilots: They look very nice to American regional (and others) pilots.

cliff
LFW
 
Hi!

If it means Cabotage, it would mean the DAL guys would fly over in Europe and take flying from KLM and AF, because the total costs (to the airline) for American pilots are MUCH less than for Euro pilots.
That is why there are now so many US guys at Emirates. They used to have lots more Europeans, but now that hiring/firing has stablized there, the EK Terms and Conditions do not look that great to most European pilots: They look very nice to American regional (and others) pilots.

cliff
LFW

Emirates will start having major problems coming up here due to the massive amount of planes they are getting. Within the next 10 years, EK will have 90 A380s. (count it again, 90) Think about all of the capacity there. The problem is most countries (and their own airlines) can't compete with the shear number of seats. There is no Open Skies agreement with Dubai to many countries because nobody can compete with those numbers. Germany now allows EK to go to 4 cities in Germany, even though EK wants to go to more. The Germans say NOPE---because they don't have to have 4 or more flights a day to DUBAI. Canada is allowing 3 weekly A380 flights to YYZ, and that is it. It is called protectionism. Canada and Germany don't have that many people wanting to just go to Dubai(maybe one or two flights a day on Lufthansa to Dubai, none from Air Canada), and EK has people going from those countries thru Dubai and ONTO other destinations. That blanks the need for Air Canada and Lufthansa to have nonstops to onward destinations, since EK can just load everyone up on A380s and take them thru Dubai and ONTO Mumbai, or Delhi, or Singapore etc. Everyone is nervous about that connecting hub, and countries are limiting the amount of flights EK can do to each country for that reason. Lufthansa nonstop flights from FRA to Mumbai etc would be affected if EK had a unlimited amount of flights on A380s and 777s from FRA to Dubai and onward connections. What will EK do when they get all of those A380s, all the 777s, and still have A350s and A330s, and not be able to use them anywhere thanks to non existant slots or open skies treaties? Big problems. And, Dubai can't bribe us with oil or natural gas because they aren't a big enough player, and other UAE airlines (Qatari, Gulf Air etc) want also to be able to compete.


Here are 2 articles from Arabianbusiness.com about the subject:


Air France KLM chief warns Emirates over expansion
by Shane McGinly

Thursday, 24 June 2010


NEW PLANS: Emirates has signed a $11.5bn deal to buy 32 additional A380 ‘superjumbo’ aircraft from European manufacturer Airbus. (Getty Images)​


Emirates Airline’s global expansion plans will be increasingly challenged by governments' reluctance to agree more traffic rights, a senior executive at Air France KLM reportedly said in New York earlier this week.

The Dubai-based airline is likely to face "more and more reluctance [by governments] to grant traffic rights," Peter Hartman, chief executive of the KLM unit of Air-France-KLM, and a member of the airline's governing board, told the Dow Jones Newswires in New York.

At the Berlin Air Show earlier this month, Emirates announced it had signed a $11.5bn deal to buy 32 additional A380 ‘superjumbo’ aircraft from European manufacturer Airbus. This was in addition to the 48 Airbus 380s, 70 Airbus 350s, 18 Boeing 777-300s and seven Boeing air freighters on order, totaling 143 wide-body aircraft worth more than $48bn at list price.



Emirate's 'game changing' growth rattles rivals

by Bloomberg



Thursday, 24 June 2010

Emirates, the biggest international airline, is rattling rivals in Europe and Asia with a growth splurge that may be as game changing for long haul carriers as the expansion of Ryanair Holdings and Southwest Airlines.

The 25 year old company is building up a fleet of 90 Airbus SAS A380 aircraft with 45,000 seats and operating costs the manufacturer says are lower than rival Boeing Co’s latest 747.

That poses a threat to European carriers that specialize in the same long distance transfer traffic, British Airways chief executive officer Willie Walsh said in an interview.





Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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General,

Gulf Air and Qatar Airways are not UAE airlines, Ethiad is and a couple of others but not GF or Qatar.
 
General,

Gulf Air and Qatar Airways are not UAE airlines, Ethiad is and a couple of others but not GF or Qatar.
It would have been more accurate to say gulf airlines. While Gulf Air is really no longer a major player, Qatar and Etihad have big aspirations and are backed by really big pockets. Emirates order book is big enough, but when you add the order books of Qatar and Etihad, you see that there is an insane number of widebody aircraft ordered for a very small geographic area. I agree that something has got to give and General Lee brings up a good point about other countries trying to limit Emirates grasp into their markets.

Of course another way to look at it is that the 380 allows Emirates to increase their traffic in a country that allows no additional flights. The draw is onward connections through Dubai made possible by its geographic placement - centrally located between Europe, Asia and Africa. Personally, I've been puzzled by this latest order and have the same scepticism as the General but the quotes used makes me think that perhaps Emirates is anticipating increasing protectionism and is planning on using the 380 to counter it. Of course, we've also got a boatload of other types ordered (all pretty big airplanes too) and the word is that there will be another 777 order announced soon at Farnborough.
 
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Nope....this prevents the Aer-Lingus-UAL thing from becoming our problem and stops the oceanic whipsaw amongst the Skyteam.

Let's be honest, like most "accords" or "protocols", it's only as good until management decides they want to wipe their A$$ with it.....but, it's better than nothing.

This post nicely encapsulates all aspects of your compete mental retardation.
-Convenient.

-Thanks for playing, jackwagon!
 
This post nicely encapsulates all aspects of your compete mental retardation.
-Convenient.

-Thanks for playing, jackwagon!

CRJ.....don't you have to get the cattle ramp connected to your light twin?

Someday, you'll earn the respect you cry for.......
 

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