Does anyone have info what's going on with Compass

[jetfo]

Last I heard they are delaying beginning of operations until September and I was wondering if anyone knew any details, payscales, etc. Thanks

 

[Napoleon TNT]

I wouldn't be surprised if Compass never becomes a reality...
...at least within the next 10 years.

 

[xjgearbtch]

They're lost and need directions. Last I heard 601XJ was to stop flying today and be handed over to them yahoos. But I'll believe it when I see it. Haven't heard anything about who's been trained to fly it, dispatch it, fix it etc. Did the FAA even approve it... But Neil is gonna get his bonus anyways.

 

[ChoadSnazz]

Compass Details

Last I heard, plans call for the first Compass 76 seater to be operating by April 2007 with a total of 36 aircraft by the end of 2010. No decision has been announced on aircraft choice (CRJ-900 or Embraer 170/175.) According to a filing with the DOT early last month, startup of the CRJ-200 service has been delayed until September due to "snags" in the approval of the certificate transfer and acquisition of a suitable aircraft (now an ex-Mesaba CRJ.) Any Compass flying done between September and April will be with a CRJ-200 and limited to what is necessary to keep the certificate acquired from Independence active. Jobs will be offered first to furloughed NWA pilots. I would be surprised if any first officer jobs are taken by NWA furloughees.

Neil Cohen will be the CEO. Proceed with caution.


YRS. OF SERVICE / CAPT. / FIRST OFFICER
1 60.41 23.18
2 62.41 33.68
3 64.53 35.83
4 66.52 37.29
5 68.55 38.25
6 70.65 39.18
7 72.66 40.07
8 74.88 40.88
9 77.41 41.06
10 80.01 41.18
11 82.45 41.18
12 85.01 41.18
13 87.58 41.18
14 90.24 41.18
15 92.78 41.18
16 95.16 41.18
17 97.45 41.18
18 99.73 41.18

Per Diem: $1.55 / Hour.

Scheduling:
• Monthly Maximums. 89-95 Scheduled; 100 hrs. Actual credit time (includes
non-flying activities such as vacation, training, etc.)
• Monthly Guarantee. 75 Hrs. Block and Reserve. No separate bid categories.
• Minimum Days Off. Reserve: 11days, including 1 block of no more than 4
inviolate days. Lineholders: 11 days off for schedule construction purposes,
waivable at the time of (computer) bidding.
• Minimum Rest. 10 hrs. sched. / FAR actual at base; 9 hrs. sched. / FAR actual away from base.
• Length of Duty day. 14 hrs. sched. / 16 hrs. actual.
• NO Trip Hour Credit or Duty Hour Credit.
• Minimum Duty Credit: 3:30
• Deadhead: 75% Pay and Credit.
• Rescheduling. 150% pay for the hours flown outside the original trip hour
period for a BH, return of days off flown for a Reserve. Junior manning paid at 150%; allowed with yearly limitation.
• Reserve System:
o Company assigned 15 hr. RAP.
o Long Call reserve assignments may be instituted once the reserve
staffing reaches 30 pilots.
o SILO low time, first out assignment methodology.
• Bid Schedule Trip Guarantee (BSTG). Same as NWA Mainline.
• Trip Filling Period. Priority Order: Recovery Pilots, pilots below guarantee,
BHs in seniority order, reserve assignments, junior manning.

Training:
• 3:30 per day; trip value for OE.
• No pay or credit for Free From All Duty days (FFAD)
• All pilots type rated during Initial Qualification (IQ). Requirement for New
Hire pilots to repay the training cost if they resign within the first 12 months.
• Distance Learning with 50% pay, NO credit. No pay for company
indoctrination on initial qualification.
• CQ credit waived at pilot option.
• Non-seniority list instructors for all ground and simulator training. Seniority list check airman for line checks and OE.

Staffing / Monthly Bidding:
• The Company will make “best efforts” to avoid junior manning.
• Captain and basing assignments awarded in seniority order.
• Computer Bidding similar to NWA system with no open time after bidding.
• No vacation slides.
• No separate Block / Reserve categories.
• Eventual trip trading system.
Vacation:
• All vacation is annually bid and has a 3+00 daily rate.
• Accruals:
o Years 1-6: 13 days
o Years 7-13: 20 days
o Years 14-19: 24 days
o Years 20+: 26 days

Sick Leave:
• Accrual - Years 1-4: 3 hrs. per month; years 5 and above: 3.5 hrs. per month.
• 450 hour Sick Leave Cap.
• Sick pay and “Sick Leave Management” are the same as Mainline.
Medical / Dental / Life Insurance. Same plan design as mainline while SJet is an affiliate with 25% employee contribution for Medical, and 20% for Dental. Life Insurance will be Company-paid for one times pay with no cap, with options to increase coverage at pilot expense.
Retiree Medical. Pilot pays 100% of retiree costs.

Retirement / 401K.
Company contribution is 50% match.

• Year 1-4: 50% match to 6%
• Year 5-8: 50% match to 8%
• Year 9+: 50% match to 10%

 

[DoinTime]

The concesssionary agreement from NW pilots that allows Compass to operate 76-seaters is not effective until a concessionary deal is finalized by the NW flight attendants. Saddly, this another example of flight attendants showing pilots who wears the pants on the airplane.

 

[jetfo]

Last I heard, plans call for the first Compass 76 seater to be operating by April 2007 with a total of 36 aircraft by the end of 2010. No decision has been announced on aircraft choice (CRJ-900 or Embraer 170/175.) According to a filing with the DOT early last month, startup of the CRJ-200 service has been delayed until September due to "snags" in the approval of the certificate transfer and acquisition of a suitable aircraft (now an ex-Mesaba CRJ.) Any Compass flying done between September and April will be with a CRJ-200 and limited to what is necessary to keep the certificate acquired from Independence active. Jobs will be offered first to furloughed NWA pilots. I would be surprised if any first officer jobs are taken by NWA furloughees.

Neil Cohen will be the CEO. Proceed with caution.


Thanks for the comprehensive response! When do you think they will begin hiring and how do you apply? Do they have an HR department up and running yet?

 

[DoinTime]

Thanks for the comprehensive response! When do you think they will begin hiring and how do you apply? Do they have an HR department up and running yet?

If they ever get up and running I doubt you'll see any off the street hiring until early next summer. Why would you want to work there anyway? The left seat will be a revolving door for NW furloughees and the right seat will just be a place to build jet SIC time. There are no flow up benefits either for non-furoughees.

 

[flyboyike]

I don't think Compass is happening. Nor was it ever going to. No part of this whole idea makes any sense.

 

[ChoadSnazz]

There are no flow up benefits either for non-furoughees.

Hey DoinTime,

Please limit your posts to subjects in which you know WTF you're talking about.


SJET 76 SEAT SJ FLOW RIGHTS
General:
• Governs employment opportunities for all NWA pilots with a system seniority number together with future NWA and SJet pilots (flow up and flow down).
Eligibility for Laid off NW Pilots:
• NWA Pilots on Furlough, received layoff notice, or have been approved for voluntary furlough.

Flow Down Rights:
• All current and future NWA pilots shall have the right to flow down to pilot positions at SJet. SJet preferences will be incorporated into the current NWA Crew Resources EPL process.
For purposes of flowing into a pilot position at SJet, all NWA pilots:
Shall be considered senior to all SJet Pilots
Shall be ranked among themselves on the SJet Pilots Seniority List in order of their seniority at NWA.
NWA Pilots can elect not to flow down to SJet and retain his recall right to NWA mainline.
A NWA pilot who accepts a pilot position at SJet shall not have time spent at SJet count against his 14 year recall period (provided for in Section 22.D.2.) as long as SJet remains an affiliate. This suspension of the 14 year period is terminated the first time a pilot bypasses recall to NWA.

SJet Pilot Employment Opportunities:

• Terms and conditions for hiring SJet pilots at NWA are the same as for non-SJet pilots, as established by NWA.
(Note: Laid off NW pilots at SJet are recalled to Northwest, not hired at Northwest.)
SJet pilots shall be selected for employment opportunities at NWA in seniority order.


vii. If an SJet pilot accepts an employment opportunity at NWA, but is unable to report due to SJet operational constraints, he shall be placed on NWA’s seniority list on the day of his new hire class date. His NWA system seniority and pay SIV date shall be calculated and maintained as if he had been in the new hire class which NWA initially offered him.

 

[Smarta$$]

Last I heard, plans call for the first Compass 76 seater to be operating by April 2007 with a total of 36 aircraft by the end of 2010. No decision has been announced on aircraft choice (CRJ-900 or Embraer 170/175.) According to a filing with the DOT early last month, startup of the CRJ-200 service has been delayed until September due to "snags" in the approval of the certificate transfer and acquisition of a suitable aircraft (now an ex-Mesaba CRJ.) Any Compass flying done between September and April will be with a CRJ-200 and limited to what is necessary to keep the certificate acquired from Independence active. Jobs will be offered first to furloughed NWA pilots. I would be surprised if any first officer jobs are taken by NWA furloughees.

Neil Cohen will be the CEO. Proceed with caution.


Thanks for the comprehensive response! When do you think they will begin hiring and how do you apply? Do they have an HR department up and running yet?

---------------------------------------------

 

[Smarta$$]

Last I heard they are delaying beginning of operations until September and I was wondering if anyone knew any details, payscales, etc. Thanks

Already trying to get out of goatjets. Must be great there.

 

[surplus1]

Hey DoinTime,

Please limit your posts to subjects in which you know WTF you're talking about.

You call what you posted a flow up? You have a vivid imagination.

If what you posted is the language of that contract, the person you replied to is correct an you are wrong. There is no flow up for anyone other than NWA pilots in that language.

Not that I give a hoot but I think it's you that doesn't understand what you read or what you post.

 

[jetfo]

Already trying to get out of goatjets. Must be great there.

Smarta$$, what an appropriate name for someone who doesn't know what he/she is talking about. Why don't you go back to the GJet pilot pay thread and flame along!

Although, if I were at GJ, I'd be a captain by now!

 

[DoinTime]

SJet Pilot Employment Opportunities:

• Terms and conditions for hiring SJet pilots at NWA are the same as for non-SJet pilots, as established by NWA. (Note: Laid off NW pilots at SJet are recalled to Northwest, not hired at Northwest.) SJet pilots shall be selected for employment opportunities at NWA in seniority order.

That’s a fancy read you put on this paragraph, Choad. All you need to know is what’s written in the first sentence though.

Terms and conditions for hiring SJet pilots at NWA are the same as for non-SJet pilots, as established by NWA.

You'd have to have your head completely up your a$$ to think this means anything other than SJet pilots will be considered for employment opportunities at NWA just like anyone else who applied from the outside. The last sentence goes on to say that if multiple pilots from SJet are being considered they will be selected in seniority order.

Of course NWA is free to hire whomever they like and if that means all SJet pilots then sobeit. There is no contractual provision that requires or even encourages it though. If anything, the restrictions and protections given to SJet pilots (should they be choosen for employment at NWA) would discourage the practice.

 

[ChoadSnazz]

That’s a fancy read you put on this paragraph, Choad. All you need to know is what’s written in the first sentence though.

Do you really think that they, or any major, would give UNCONDITIONAL employment to the 300 hour wonders that this contract will attract? Now that would really be stupid. Is there any flow through agreement that does?

 

[DoinTime]

Do you really think that they, or any major, would give UNCONDITIONAL employment to the 300 hour wonders that this contract will attract? Now that would really be stupid. Is there any flow through agreement that does?

That is exactly what you implied in your retalitory response towards me. I stated that there is no provision for the mandatory hiring of SJet pilots and you jumped me for it. Now you've waffled your position. You don't work in PCL management do you?

 

[ChoadSnazz]

That is exactly what you implied in your retalitory response towards me. I stated that there is no provision for the mandatory hiring of SJet pilots and you jumped me for it. Now you've waffled your position. You don't work in PCL management do you?

Now who's waffling? Better reread your post. Here's what you really said:

"There are no flow up benefits either for non-furoughees."

That is more than a little different from "there is no provision for the mandatory hiring of SJet pilots."

I posted summary contract language that states specifically what those "non-existent" flow up benefits entail. Did I say anything about "mandatory hiring?" Did I offer editorial comment? What I posted is accurate. What you posted is not. Let those who are seeking details on Compass in this thread judge for themselves how much value is in those benefits. Some will no doubt see value there. Many will not, but to state that there are no flow up benefits is simply not accurate.


... and yes - you figured it out. I am the Pinnacle CEO.

 

[xjlifer]

"... and yes - you figured it out. I am the Pinnacle CEO."

And quite a snazzy dresser!

 

[ChoadSnazz]

"... and yes - you figured it out. I am the Pinnacle CEO."

And quite a snazzy dresser!

Well thank you!

 

[jetflier]

hEY ALL,
A CLARIFICATION ON THE FLOW RIGHTS.

sEE THE SECOND ITEM UNDER s jET....



.


SJET 76 SEAT SJ FLOW RIGHTS
General:
• Governs employment opportunities for all NWA pilots with a system seniority number together with future NWA and SJet pilots (flow up and flow down).
Eligibility for Laid off NW Pilots:
• NWA Pilots on Furlough, received layoff notice, or have been approved for voluntary furlough.

Flow Down Rights:
• All current and future NWA pilots shall have the right to flow down to pilot positions at SJet. SJet preferences will be incorporated into the current NWA Crew Resources EPL process.
For purposes of flowing into a pilot position at SJet, all NWA pilots:
Shall be considered senior to all SJet Pilots
Shall be ranked among themselves on the SJet Pilots Seniority List in order of their seniority at NWA.
NWA Pilots can elect not to flow down to SJet and retain his recall right to NWA mainline.
A NWA pilot who accepts a pilot position at SJet shall not have time spent at SJet count against his 14 year recall period (provided for in Section 22.D.2.) as long as SJet remains an affiliate. This suspension of the 14 year period is terminated the first time a pilot bypasses recall to NWA.

SJet Pilot Employment Opportunities:

• Terms and conditions for hiring SJet pilots at NWA are the same as for non-SJet pilots, as established by NWA.
(Note: Laid off NW pilots at SJet are recalled to Northwest, not hired at Northwest.)
SJet pilots shall be selected for employment opportunities at NWA in seniority order.


vii. If an SJet pilot accepts an employment opportunity at NWA, but is unable to report due to SJet operational constraints, he shall be placed on NWA’s seniority list on the day of his new hire class date. His NWA system seniority and pay SIV date shall be calculated and maintained as if he had been in the new hire class which NWA initially offered him.[/quote]

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

It sounds like ChoadSnazz is Compass' chief pilot...

Stay out of his office.

 

[737 Pylt]

You call what you posted a flow up? You have a vivid imagination.

If what you posted is the language of that contract, the person you replied to is correct an you are wrong. There is no flow up for anyone other than NWA pilots in that language.

Not that I give a hoot but I think it's you that doesn't understand what you read or what you post.

This from the king of not knowing what he's talking about!
I guess the shuffleboard courts must be empty.
737

 

[KL24]

Anyone who is looking at a flow through agreement needs to remember Eagle.

Flow through works both ways, and generally not in the flow-up's interest.

The flow-up baits the pilot group, and the flow-back is what gets you in the end.

 

[DoinTime]

Anyone who is looking at a flow through agreement needs to remember Eagle.

Flow through works both ways, and generally not in the flow-up's interest.

The flow-up baits the pilot group, and the flow-back is what gets you in the end.

At least at Eagle there was a "sure thing" on flowing up if the hiring would have continued. There is no such promise at Compass. If you work at Compass you have to apply and interview along with everyone else from every other carrier in the selection process. If NWA wants to play favorites and hire every SJet pilot they can get their hands that's fine. Likewise, if they want to minimize turnover at Compass and not hire anyone that is their prerogative too.

If your looking to Compass for a "sure thing" way to get in at NWA your looking in the wrong place.

 

[DoinTime]

I posted summary contract language that states specifically what those "non-existent" flow up benefits entail. Did I say anything about "mandatory hiring?" Did I offer editorial comment? What I posted is accurate. What you posted is not.

"Flowing up" is mandatory hiring. You are not flowing up if NWA doesn't have to take you. There isn't anything so much as a preferential interview. There are only two provisions in the new NWA PWA that apply to someone going from SJet to NWA that has not previously held a NWA seniority number:

1.) If you are successful in gaining employment at NWA, Compass doesn't have to let you leave. You are of course seniority and pay protected but you still can't leave Compass.

2.) If several of your coworkers are selected for employment at NWA at the same time your relative seniority with those coworkers carries through to the assignment of seniority numbers at NWA.

Number 1 is a detriment to the pilot affected and number 2 can go either way. There is no value in this agreement to anyone who has never held a NWA seniority number.

It is a shame that the vast majority of pilots couldn't read this bit of language and come out with a working knowledge of what it means. All of my posts educate people in plain language to what this agreement is all about.

 

[ChoadSnazz]

"Flowing up" is mandatory hiring. You are not flowing up if NWA doesn't have to take you. There isn't anything so much as a preferential interview. There are only two provisions in the new NWA PWA that apply to someone going from SJet to NWA that has not previously held a NWA seniority number:

1.) If you are successful in gaining employment at NWA, Compass doesn't have to let you leave. You are of course seniority and pay protected but you still can't leave Compass.

2.) If several of your coworkers are selected for employment at NWA at the same time your relative seniority with those coworkers carries through to the assignment of seniority numbers at NWA.

Number 1 is a detriment to the pilot affected and number 2 can go either way. There is no value in this agreement to anyone who has never held a NWA seniority number.

It is a shame that the vast majority of pilots couldn't read this bit of language and come out with a working knowledge of what it means. All of my posts educate people in plain language to what this agreement is all about.

DoinTime,

It is indeed a shame that the "vast majority of pilots" have had to turn to you for an analysis of this agreement because your expert analysis is lacking.

1.) If you are successful in gaining employment at NWA, Compass doesn't have to let you leave. You are of course seniority and pay protected but you still can't leave Compass...Number 1 is a detriment to the pilot affected...

You obviously haven't reviewed the pay and workrules for NWA's mainline small jet DC-9 replacement, which is where you would expect to start as a shiny new NWA pilot. If I had to choose between being hired at NWA and accruing seniority and longevity for pay and benefit purposes while, due to an operational hold, remaining a Compass captain blockholder making say $66 an hour, or going straight to NWA and jumping right into that first year probationary pay of $24.20 an hour, it wouldn't require any expert analysis from you to tell me what was best for me. Here's the governing language:

If an SJet pilot accepts an employment opportunity at NWA, but is unable to report due to SJet operational constraints, he shall be placed on NWA’s seniority list on the day of his new hire class date. His NWA system seniority and pay SIV date shall be calculated and maintained as if he had been in the new hire class which NWA initially offered him.

2.) If several of your coworkers are selected for employment at NWA at the same time your relative seniority with those coworkers carries through to the assignment of seniority numbers at NWA...number 2 can go either way.

As for your analysis of "number 2", I don't get it - you want a flow up, but you reject what is a cornerstone of any flow through agreement, the preservation of relative seniority. You can't have it both ways.

There is no value in this agreement to anyone who has never held a NWA seniority number.

This is my favorite, so I saved it for last. NWA HR personnel will be involved in setting the hiring criteria for Compass pilots. This is because they want to avoid the situation where many Compass pilots don't meet the hiring criteria for NWA. Put on your plain language analysis hat for a minute, and think about this one. If NWA wants to start a C-scale airline, (call it Compass) run it with NWA managers (Neil Cohen and friends), and for operational efficiency run it like a NWA clone, would they like to see Compass captains leave for Fedex, SWA, UPS, and such or would they like to "capture" them at mainline at the bottom of the payscale, already trained and conversant in NWA procedures? I think that there will be value in this language for Compass pilots who want to work for NWA. With pilots paying $40k+ to the likes of Comair Academy for a "guaranteed interview" with a regional, I am betting that Compass will be a popular choice for those seeking a regional job precisely because of that "non existent" flow through language. The fact that there is no guaranteed job is a good thing. It allows NWA to screen out the dirtbags (we all have some.) A Compass pilot is still free to go to any other airline who will hire him, so he has given up nothing in career flexibility by choosing Compass. The Compass contract appears to be about par for the regional course, so there is no great sacrifice in pay and work rules required in choosing Compass over another regional.

Finally, NWA currently has 728 pilots on furlough. Many will not accept recall. NWA is critically short of pilots in some categories this summer, has cancelled further planned furloughs and announced its intention to recall early in 2007. Large numbers of upcoming retirements combined with a pilot early retirement program (yet to be implemented) will accelerate the recall process. Bottom line is that if you are considering a regional, as many who are reading this are, Compass might not be such a bad bet.

It is a shame that the vast majority of pilots couldn't read this bit of language and come out with a working knowledge of what it means. All of my posts educate people in plain language to what this agreement is all about.

I changed my mind. This is by far my favorite part of your post, so it goes last. Your "plain language" education of all of those stupid pilots who can't think for themselves (the "vast majority") along with your editorial comment ("There is no value in this agreement to anyone who has never held a NWA seniority number") is IMHO way off the mark, but thanks anyway for trying to help the unwashed masses understand. BTW will you be applying at Compass?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Don't forget if they select the E170 for compass and the E190 for mainline it will save them hundreds of thousands of dollars on training if they flow-up.

 

[IHateMgmt]

Jetfo, ChoadSnazz... wow guys.

 

[DoinTime]

...blah blah blah blah

For a guy who claims to report only the facts you jam packed that last post with tons of speculation.

Don't forget if they select the E170 for compass and the E190 for mainline it will save them hundreds of thousands of dollars on training if they flow-up.

Not a completly correct statement. If NWA brings a guy up from Compass they will undoubtably be able to do short coarse training if there is fleet commonality. This is a benefit for mainline. Meanwhile at Compass they just lost a captain so now they have to upgrade a first officer and hire a newhire to fill the vacant first officer seat. End result on the bottom line from NW hiring out of Compass is 2.5 training cycles. If NW would have hired off of the street there would have been only one training cycle.

 

[ChoadSnazz]

DoinTime running out of plain language education.

For a guy who claims to report only the facts you jam packed that last post with tons of speculation.

Ummm...

Where did I claim to report only the facts? Earlier I referred to a posted cut and paste Compass contract summary as accurate and without editorial comment. This is a discussion forum. I am discussing.