Doctors Only...

[350DRIVER]

Curious as to the doctors who frequent this board and the career path they ended up taking, total years, and outcome.?? TDTURBO(?) I believe became a doctor in internal medicine, hopefully you can add a little of your experience here to thris thread.

The main objective of this thread is to determine if it is practical, possible, to pursue the medical degree while flying 121. (I have heard "yes" by many, but don't want to jump in over my head here so I seek advice from those who have been there.

I recently met a Doctor of internal medicine who was able to do this via distance learning and on the side he does the 767 thing, needless to say he is well off.

a few questions as follows..


1) How many pilots while flying (part 121/135) were able to keep job and attend medical school as the same time.?

2) were you able to work with company to give you certain trips/days off?

3) Hardest part (other than debt)?


4) What % of course work were you able to complete via online versus having to go a a campus?.


5) Do the medical schools work with your "current" position and your ambition, desires, and wants since it is somewhat of a unique situation that can work out for both party's involved.?


6) What can be expected once you take the boards?

7) referring to number 6, upon completion of the boards and when you get into your res./internships I guess it is a fair assumption to make that you must give up the current flying gig at this point until you complete this portion of your medical training?.



Is it safe to assume that once you complete your rounds in the internship/res
then another 3 year cardiology res, then the additional two-four to become a surgeon then you can get back on to flying on the side??


I am mainly concerned with time constraints especially after you take the boards.

Anyone that has been in this situations (or similar) would very much appreciate your advice and experiences.


thanks,

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[jdru25]

350,

The best person to talk to in the Pittsburgh area would be Dr. Pete Lambrou. He is still located in the UPMC West building by PIT international. On Pete's days off from USAir he is a doctor in Aviation Medicine for UPMC. He is a class act and I'm sure he would be willing to talk with you. The number to his office is 1-412-604-2088. Cheers and fly safe.

 

[JimNtexas]

A good friend of mine from EF-111's got a law degree while an active AA flight engineer. I saw him was on TV during their last strike. He has a full time law practice now and still flies airliners.

If any of you AA guys know a short former EF-111 pilot who is a little bit of a rabble rouser, tell him Hootman says hello.

 

[pilotyip]

Navy story

I guy I used to fly P-'s with in the reserves became a doctor, hid from everyone, said he was in hosp admin. Reason why he still flew, he could make more money in the reserves as a pilot. Extra drills, etc. When the Navy found out he was a doc, they told him if you want to stay in the reserves you have to change your designator to Dcotor and no longer fly as a crewmember.
I guess the Navy had a bigger shortage of Doctors than pilots. This was the early 80's and we were fully manned due to the massive layoffs in the the early 80's.

 

[ManofAction]

Hi 350 Driver,

I'm not a 121 pilot but I am an orthopedic surgeon and maybe I can offer some helpful info.
On the positive side, I know that my med school really liked accepting people of diverse backgrounds-not just kids fresh out of college with straight A's,etc. And I have heard of 2 people "sharing" a residency-each working half time. But of course a 3 yr residency then takes 6 yrs.
The biggest negative will be the time commitment involved. I graduated med school in '79 so online courses were not an option-but I gotta tell you that we studied very hard to keep up. Classes 8-5, study til MN,repeat 5 days a week. Weekends usually were study 9-3. Residency was an altogether different beast.
I completed mine in '85 before the new work rules limited residents to just an 80 hour work week. Night call is usually 1 in 3, sometimes 1 in 2 especially with vacations. It was pretty tough to have a life, in fact quality of life s#cked.
Now qol is good, but be aware that there is a lot of unhappiness in the trenches of medicine. It's not much different than what I read on the Majors message board-ie. working harder fro a lot less money.
I don't want to discourage you but I just don't want you to think that it's all sunlight and roses. I'd be more than happy to help you out in any way I can. Good luck-as we say in medicine "non locus carborundum".

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

How 'bout post-bach and regionals, can that be done? I'd like to at least try to get ready for MCATs and see where that goes

Anyone's done that?

 

[350DRIVER]

Hi 350 Driver,

I'm not a 121 pilot but I am an orthopedic surgeon and maybe I can offer some helpful info.
On the positive side, I know that my med school really liked accepting people of diverse backgrounds-not just kids fresh out of college with straight A's,etc. And I have heard of 2 people "sharing" a residency-each working half time. But of course a 3 yr residency then takes 6 yrs.
The biggest negative will be the time commitment involved. I graduated med school in '79 so online courses were not an option-but I gotta tell you that we studied very hard to keep up. Classes 8-5, study til MN,repeat 5 days a week. Weekends usually were study 9-3. Residency was an altogether different beast.
I completed mine in '85 before the new work rules limited residents to just an 80 hour work week. Night call is usually 1 in 3, sometimes 1 in 2 especially with vacations. It was pretty tough to have a life, in fact quality of life s#cked.
Now qol is good, but be aware that there is a lot of unhappiness in the trenches of medicine. It's not much different than what I read on the Majors message board-ie. working harder fro a lot less money.
I don't want to discourage you but I just don't want you to think that it's all sunlight and roses. I'd be more than happy to help you out in any way I can. Good luck-as we say in medicine "non locus carborundum".

ManofAction,

I appreciate the detailed reponse and I am looking into the different options right now. After completing med school how difficult would it be to get into the cardiology residency program (then surgical) at Hopkin's, Clinic, or UCLA MC?. Do you have any personal experiences with these places?.

Any good/bad stories about Case Western Reserve?. It seems like they are always ranked quite high every year.

Vlad,

What was your degree in, premed?. Let me know how the MCATS are coming a long.

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[Vladimir Lenin]

No, I have a degree in economics and currently thinking of a post-bach in biology/chemistry to prepare for MCATs

That, or accounting

Gotta have a way out

 

[ManofAction]

ManofAction,

I appreciate the detailed reponse and I am looking into the different options right now. After completing med school how difficult would it be to get into the cardiology residency program (then surgical) at Hopkin's, Clinic, or UCLA MC?. Do you have any personal experiences with these places?.

Any good/bad stories about Case Western Reserve?. It seems like they are always ranked quite high every year.

350 Driver,
To become a cardiologist you would need to complete an internal medicine residency and then do a cardiology fellowship(which I believe is 2 years).I do have personal experience with John's Hopkins,sorta. My wife did her anesthesia training there-tremendous place. Either she's smart or they did a pretty good job teaching her. I wouldn't get too hung up about where you want to train-all the places you mentioned are very good. You can get outstanding training at a lot of places that aren't Harvard,Yale, etc. Those kind of name places are where people go to get into the world of academia.

 

[FN FAL]

Sounds like you need to have a lot of patients to be a doctor.

 

[ManofAction]

350 Driver,

I just spoke to my sister in law who is a F/A for a major American Airline. She has confirmed that you pilots work 2 days per month and make 250K per year. Why would you want to be a doctor?

 

[350DRIVER]

350 Driver,

I just spoke to my sister in law who is a F/A for a major American Airline. She has confirmed that you pilots work 2 days per month and make 250K per year. Why would you want to be a doctor?

ManofAction,

I hope you are being sarcastic here?!?...

Those 250K per year/2 days per month are days of the past, I will never see those days my friend during my career. If I were a Delta 777 captain then maybe, those days are also coming to an end however over there. The DAL pilot group set the bar high, now they are being forced into giving much of it back. After they take these pay cuts you will see that 250K a year will be somewhat difficult to reach and those that get close will be the most senior of the senior guys with 20-25+ years of service there. This industry is in pretty bad shape, that is why you have guys in my position looking at all options. Those days of working 2 days/month are long gone, this industry will never be what it once was. I am still in my mid 20's, that is why I am leaning towards doing this. If I had to do it all over again you can bet I would have went into the medical profession. I want to do both, I have worked too hard and accomplished too much to throw it all away now so that is why in some way or form I will always be part of this profession. I just can't justify making peanuts for the next 30+ years in comparison to what my doctor friends are making.

350 Driver,
To become a cardiologist you would need to complete an internal medicine residency and then do a cardiology fellowship(which I believe is 2 years).I do have personal experience with John's Hopkins,sorta. My wife did her anesthesia training there-tremendous place. Either she's smart or they did a pretty good job teaching her. I wouldn't get too hung up about where you want to train-all the places you mentioned are very good. You can get outstanding training at a lot of places that aren't Harvard,Yale, etc. Those kind of name places are where people go to get into the world of academia.

I agree with you on this, however it seems that these "top" places seem to offer staff positions first to those who complete a residency there versus take those from the "outside". I see your points though, you are in private practice I assume?. I met (flew) many of the surgical teams from the Cleveland Clinic when I was a charter captain, did a lot of life flights for them when they would go "harvest" the organs and this seemed to be how they got on "staff". It just seems to make much more sense to get the residency done at a well known place versus a hospital system in Podunk Iowa.

It just seems like a "name" carries a lot of weight when all is said and done. . . I do appreciate all the information, please keep it coming. I am having dinner with one of the heart surgeons this upcoming week that I became friendly with over the years and I am going to try and pick his brain and see what else I can come up with.

No, I have a degree in economics and currently thinking of a post-bach in biology/chemistry to prepare for MCATs

That, or accounting

Gotta have a way out

Gotcha, seems like you are in a pretty good situation. . It is my understanding that you do not need a post bach in biology, etc, you can still take the MCATS then depending on how well you do you can apply to the different medical schools from there. Seems like it would save quite a bit of time as long as you are "strong" in those subject areas.

You can always do it cheap and attend medical school in Guadalajara Mexico. A good friend of mine did this and now has a booming internal medicine practice and he is also on staff as a ER doctor part time at one of the local hospitals.


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[ManofAction]

ManofAction,

I hope you are being sarcastic here?!?...

Those 250K per year/2 days per month are days of the past, I will never see those days my friend during my career. If I were a Delta 777 captain then maybe, those days are also coming to an end however over there. The DAL pilot group set the bar high, now they are being forced into giving much of it back. After they take these pay cuts you will see that 250K a year will be somewhat difficult to reach and those that get close will be the most senior of the senior guys with 20-25+ years of service there. This industry is in pretty bad shape, that is why you have guys in my position looking at all options. Those days of working 2 days/month are long gone, this industry will never be what it once was. I am still in my mid 20's, that is why I am leaning towards doing this. If I had to do it all over again you can bet I would have went into the medical profession. I want to do both, I have worked too hard and accomplished too much to throw it all away now so that is why in some way or form I will always be part of this profession. I just can't justify making peanuts for the next 30+ years in comparison to what my doctor friends are making.

350 Driver,
Yea, I was just being sarcastic. I'm friends with a few pilots so I do know what reality is.On the other hand , I have seen the bid sheet for the Chicago-Narita trip and I do believe that to be a lifestyle I could grow accustomed to!

If only I was Number one on the seniority list.

You are 100% right about staff positions going to a known quantity-if your heart is set on working at a particular institution then by all means do your training there.They definitely like a known quantity. Based on my own experience I would recommend not looking too far down the road-just get accepted to med school and see what you like. It's really hard for an outsider to know what it is like to practice a particular speciality until you actually do it. I started out wanting to be a cardiothoracic surgeon and found I didn't like the middle of night life and death emergency stuff and sewing little tubes (heart arteries) together all day long. Orthopedics,on the other hand, allowed me to work on basically healthy people with power saws,drills,rods,screws,plates,nails,pins,etc. and put them back together.Fun! Best of luck to you.

 

[Jmmccutc]

350,

The best person to talk to in the Pittsburgh area would be Dr. Pete Lambrou. He is still located in the UPMC West building by PIT international. On Pete's days off from USAir he is a doctor in Aviation Medicine for UPMC. He is a class act and I'm sure he would be willing to talk with you. The number to his office is 1-412-604-2088. Cheers and fly safe.

Jdru25, you beat me too it...this was just what i was gonna suggest, Dr. Lambrou is the AME i've been going to since i started flying three years ago he'd be able to help you out, he's also a Capt. for USAirways, so he might be pursuing the Dr. end of business more in the coming months...

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

. It is my understanding that you do not need a post bach in biology, etc, you can still take the MCATS then depending on how well you do you can apply to the different medical schools from there. Seems like it would save quite a bit of time as long as you are "strong" in those subject areas.

Strong is the key word, I haven't touched chemistry or biology books since high school. I am still going to try the "regional" dance while I study for MCATs

 

[TDTURBO]

350 Driver, I sent you a PM.

 

[350DRIVER]

350 Driver, I sent you a PM.

I appreciate the offer.

Thank you,

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[350DRIVER]

Strong is the key word, I haven't touched chemistry or biology books since high school. I am still going to try the "regional" dance while I study for MCATs

Vlad,

When do you anticipate taking the MCAT's and if you don't mind me asking what state would you be looking into attending med school should the opportunity present itself at some point down the line.

Studying for the test has yet to be of much fun....

good luck,

3 5 0

MK, it isn't as easy as it appears to be ! !

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

College degree and practicing medicine...

The main objective of this thread is to determine if it is practical, possible, to pursue the medical degree while flying 121.

I thought YIP was gonna tell us that you really don't need a degree to be a doctor. After all, the degree doesn't have anything to do with actually being able to diagnose or treat disease, it's just happens to be that almost all doctors have degrees. Just go to a third world country, do a few appendectomies, you know, get some experience and you'll be the first guy they hire in the great doctor hiring boom in June of 2007.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

Vlad,

When do you anticipate taking the MCAT's and if you don't mind me asking what state would you be looking into attending med school should the opportunity present itself at some point down the line

At least two more years for the MCAT's and pretty much anywhere (well, maybe except Guadalajara) for the medschool

 

[bobbysamd]

M.D. degrees

I thought YIP was gonna tell us that you really don't need a degree to be a doctor. After all, the degree doesn't have anything to do with actually being able to diagnose or treat disease, it's just happens to be that almost all doctors have degrees. Just go to a third world country, do a few appendectomies, you know, get some experience and you'll be the first guy they hire in the great doctor hiring boom in June of 2007.

Not only that, you can earn your M.D. at an online medical school while building that valuable experience, thus eliminating the need for internships, residencies and fellowships.

The model of success is a 20-year-old who got hired at a free clinic without his medical degree upon high school graduation (or, did he drop out and get his G.E.D.). He built enough surgical experience at the clinic to be hired at an on-demand trauma center in Ypsilanti.

Dr. Darby, in DOCS, INC., stated that 161 of 166 hospitals are hiring doctors who do not have MDs. At least ten of these hospitals are in the Ypsilanti area. Therefore, becoming a doctor without a medical degree is a viable alternative medical career path.

Good comments, Hugh.

Seriously, 350, more power to you if you can attend med school while holding down a full-time flying job. If med school can be compared to law school, the studying alone will be an SOB, much less class attendance and labs. Good luck with whatever you decide to pursue.

 

[350DRIVER]

Seriously, 350, more power to you if you can attend med school while holding down a full-time flying job. If med school can be compared to law school, the studying alone will be an SOB, much less class attendance and labs. Good luck with whatever you decide to pursue.

Thanks for the response bobbysamd,

I think this is one obstacle that may be difficult to overcome... It has been done before but finding a way that will be compatible with all other variables seems to be a completely different animal in itself. Maybe the top 5% can test out of having to do some of the "dirty work" that the others will be required to do. If only life was that simple....


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[Herman Bloom]

I'm taking a break from flying (at a 121 carrier) to pursue medicine. Actually, I'm taking a break this very moment from studying organic chemistry to catch up on the aviation world.

I, for one, can not concieve of any possible way to attend medical school while maintaining ANY sort of employment, let alone an airline job. I think your best bet is to try to obtain a leave of absence from your airline....If you can stretch it out long enough to finish the prerequisite courses, finish medical school, and complete a residency program you may have a shot. Otherwise, you'd have to concentrate on medicine and then apply to an airline when all is said and done with your training.

As for me, I've been taking the requisite science courses at a local college (I was an english major) and doing some orthopaedics research part time (hips and knees, baby). I have really enjoyed the pure science I've been learning. It has really opened my eyes to a world I could never have imagined.

Although it is a long and often tedious process, I feel really compelled to give it a shot. Medicine is changing in much the same way as is aviation, which is to say that the "glory days" may be over. But it's never boring.

TDTURBO, I'd love the opportunity to correspond with you, especially since you're in the field I find the most interesting (at this point, at least). Drop me a line if you feel so inclined (via PM).

Gotta go...reaction mechanisms to be memorized.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

350,

The best person to talk to in the Pittsburgh area would be Dr. Pete Lambrou. He is still located in the UPMC West building by PIT international. On Pete's days off from USAir he is a doctor in Aviation Medicine for UPMC. He is a class act and I'm sure he would be willing to talk with you. The number to his office is 1-412-604-2088. Cheers and fly safe.

I concur, Pete is a great guy and can probably help you out. I would schedule a medical with him though and not just hit him up for info.

I don't see how he has the time to do both and raise a family but he manages. The last trip I flew with him, we did a 4 day and then he left and went directly to the office. If you have your medical on the right day you can catch him still in his uniform pants and shoes with his Doc Frock on!