DL proposes Profit Sharing cut for Pilots

[BILL LUMBERG]

It might bring about some better pattern bargaining by ALPA.

Give away PS during good times for large pay raises.
When the company asks for wage cuts, exchange that for a big chunk of PS.

Rinse and repeat.
As of now, we take big pay cuts during lean times in exchange for bupkis.

Too true Andy.....when (or if ) stupid management tricks make us lose money take my profit sharing rather than reopen my contract with pay cuts and work rule changes.....they can then pound sand. More stability over a career using that method. Stupid me....using the word "stability" in this line of work.

 

[Twisted Mind]

For once I agree with Bill.

 

[Andy]

Too true Andy.....when (or if ) stupid management tricks make us lose money take my profit sharing rather than reopen my contract with pay cuts and work rule changes.....they can then pound sand. More stability over a career using that method. Stupid me....using the word "stability" in this line of work.

Bill, I can see I wasn't clear.

Whenever there's an economic downturn and airlines lose money, they end up getting pilots to take pay cuts. It's always happened in the past and will happen in the future. NEXT TIME, let's demand large profit sharing (and stock options, similar to what management gets) when they cut our wages.

During good times when they want to cut our profit sharing, fine. Just make sure that we get HUGE pay increases for the PS cut.


In the past, we've agreed to pay cuts but have not gotten anything in return. Let's start to use profit sharing and stock options as a bargaining chip when they come after our paychecks.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Andy you were crystal....

We are speaking the same lingo except I have been burned before by the coveted stock options idea. Thats not worth our nego capital IMHO.

 

[Andy]

Andy you were crystal....

We are speaking the same lingo except I have been burned before by the coveted stock options idea. Thats not worth our nego capital IMHO.

In the past, I've seen ALPA negotiate for restricted stock that can't be sold for many years. If it were me, I'd want to negotiate for stock options with a reasonable strike price and, say 10 year expiration, that are immediately exercisable and placed into a pilot's account where he has full control over them. Such options would have no material cost to the company, just like profit sharing has no cost to a money losing company.

 

[RJLoser]

Andy you were crystal....

We are speaking the same lingo except I have been burned before by the coveted stock options idea. Thats not worth our nego capital IMHO.

What's your bid status bill?

 

[SpauldingSmails]

The rumor other that I keep hearing pertains to bringing pay banding to DAL, that gets my attention more than changes in the PS scheme. If pay bands are on the way, we've got to get it right - the potential for it to bite us in the butt is tremendous if not done correctly. Narrow bands would seem easier to manage long-term.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

What's your bid status bill?

A.....why?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

The rumor other that I keep hearing pertains to bringing pay banding to DAL, that gets my attention more than changes in the PS scheme. If pay bands are on the way, we've got to get it right - the potential for it to bite us in the butt is tremendous if not done correctly. Narrow bands would seem easier to manage long-term.

The BS was the company banding the ER to the 757. We forget how much the company stole from the pilot group as we flew the swiss army knife of the airline.....that category could fly whatever the company threw at them with no respect paywise.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

The BS was the company banding the ER to the 757. We forget how much the company stole from the pilot group as we flew the swiss army knife of the airline.....that category could fly whatever the company threw at them with no respect paywise.

In the same vein, my concern pertains to 737-900's and A321's replacing 7ERs. If pay gains on those types are forsaken to subsidize lower paying categories - it'll be an even bigger give away.

 

[General Lee]

The BS was the company banding the ER to the 757. We forget how much the company stole from the pilot group as we flew the swiss army knife of the airline.....that category could fly whatever the company threw at them with no respect paywise.

Say what? The 757 was brought UP to the 767 domestic and 7ER (INTL) pay. It was a good deal because there were more 757s than 767s.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

GL..I disagree. The 7ER was dragged down closer to the 757. Not to deflect but the 737-900 pays dollars less for exactly the same productivity (read: pax load) of the 757.

 

[General Lee]

GL..I disagree. The 7ER was dragged down closer to the 757. Not to deflect but the 737-900 pays dollars less for exactly the same productivity (read: pax load) of the 757.

Uh, back when the 777s were about to be brought onto the property, Dalpa said the pilots wouldn't fly them without a pay rate. At that point all of the planes got a significant pay raise, and the 757 was brought UP to the 767 Dom and ER pay rates. That is when they were "tied" together.

You may be correct that the 739 and 757 are now within a few dollars per hour, but that was negotiated sometime after BK. I'm sure the 321 will be close too.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Andy]

I just compared AMR's rates to yours. I'm VERY disappointed that AMR didn't negotiate higher rates. We need the latest contract to be the highest and have each new contract leapfrog the previous one.

We need to get wages back to pre-9/11 (adjusted for inflation) rates.

I hope you guys get the 'Delta dot' well above 3 Benjamins.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Are you guys gonna get UAL contract 2000 or DAL contract 2001 rates? It's time to take it back. ALL OF IT.