DL Negotiations effects on DCI Pilots from WSJ

[~~~^~~~]

Delta Pilots Prepare
To Make Concessions
By EVAN PEREZ
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
July 12, 2004; Page A5

Delta Air Lines' pilots union, seeking to prepare its members for some of the toughest concessions they may have to make to save their airline, says its negotiators are pursuing new work-rules changes that would make pilots more productive but stop short of some of the rules that other troubled carriers have adopted.

The airline's unit of the Air Line Pilots association told its members in a memorandum over the weekend that its negotiators held "informal meetings" with management during the past two weeks that have focused on perhaps the most complicated part of yearlong negotiations between Delta and its only major union. After agreeing on the value of certain work-rules changes, which determine how much flying pilots do every month, other negotiations on wages, benefits, and limits on regional jets "should move more quickly," union negotiators said.

Signaling how controversial work-rules give-backs can be, the union memo said, "The [negotiating] committee recognizes the hard fought battles our union has wages to achieve the work rules in our contract, and we are measuring each step with great caution," the union negotiators' memo said.

The third-largest US carrier has been in slow-moving wage-cut talks with the union since last summer and, in the meantime, has been drifting deeper into financial peril as it piles on to its more than $3.6 billion in losses over the past three years. Delta has warned it may file for bankruptcy-court protection if it can't get relief from the highest pilot wages in the industry.

Delta has asked for more than $800 million in wage cuts and productivity concessions. The union last offered more than $300 million in pay cuts and concessions, but says it will soon improve its offer to help jump-start talks.

Key among the union's negotiators guidelines, the union said, is finding ways to improve the productivity of pilots but without adopting some of the scheduling allowances at other carriers, where pilots can be scheduled to fly more than 80 hours and, in some cases, as many as 100 hours a month. Pilots at Delta fly as many as 75 hours a month and the union negotiators, in their memo, said they were looking at unspecified alternatives to lifting that cap too far.

Pilots at other carriers AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines, Delta's bigger rivals, last year pushed through tough wage cuts and productivity improvements. United did so while under bankruptcy-court protection and American while on the brink of the same.

Karen Miller, a union spokeswoman, said the union wants to make pilots more productive but not hurt their quality of life.

Also on the table, the union negotiators said, was finding ways to make sure pilots on reserve duty do more flying and to lessen the number of hours pilots sit waiting for trips in some of Delta's hubs. Delta reserve pilots are scheduled by the company to be ready to fill in for others who are sick or can't fly their scheduled times. The average Delta reserve pilot flies less than seven days per month, the union memo said, adding "If you work six days a month on reserve you can expect to fly more."

"A Delta pilot should anticipate a full month of flying every month (with allowances for vacations and training)," the union negotiators said.

The union spokeswoman said the work-rules talks with the company aren't complete and would continue in the coming weeks.

Write to Evan Perez at [email protected]1

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB108958468844760794,00.html

 

[strega7]

the union wants to make pilots more productive but not hurt their quality of life.

Heaven forbid a Delta pilots quality of life should suffer. Shouldn't the pilots help out with more than just pay give backs?


???

 

[bailout]

>>The average Delta reserve pilot flies less than seven days per month, the union memo said, adding "If you work six days a month on reserve you can expect to fly more."<<


Geez, Its six days a WEEK on reserve around here!

 

[~~~^~~~]

>>The average Delta reserve pilot flies less than seven days per month, the union memo said, adding "If you work six days a month on reserve you can expect to fly more."<<

According to Kolshak (sp?) it is because the pilots are picking up overtime while their buddies sit furloughed.

 

[General Lee]

Most of the reserves do work a lot, but some senior ones can "low yellow" and be the last called in order of seniority. Those low on the totempole can be called all of the time. Also, a lot of the trips that are dropped due to vacation and planned training can be picked up by line holders--so often there aren't as many open trips and only sick calls are filled by reserves. If the line holders didn't pick up the extra time, then all of the reserves would be used more. Nobody knows if those trips will or won't be picked up by lineholders until the last minute. I have gotten a "relief type line" the last two months, but was reserve in May and was flying all of the time.


As far as hurting our lifestyle, you should want us to keep as much as we can so maybe you can have that someday. The sick call rates at AA and UA have skyrocketed since their new productivity has gone into effect, and that has resulted in more expenses for them. You "young pups" may be able to fly 95 hours a month in your twenties or thirties---but think about those senior older Captains that have been flying for 20-25 years. Not easy. That might be another reason we are retiring soooo many--and more will follow I am sure.


Strega7,

How about the rest of the employees? Right now the rest have mainly given healthcare increases, and not much else. We will get pay cuts and healthcare increases, and then productivity increases.


Fins,

We have all known that the number of RJs allowed will increase, but who will fly them? Thanks to Jetblue and their new rates, our MEC will probably dive down low to get those seats for our furloughs. It was done before---during the '96 contract talks--for Delta Express. Malone and the negotiator--Wycoff--have said that they want the recalls to continue through any negotiations--and that means they will be trying to place them somewhere. Grinstein, after looking at the new Jetblue rates--probably knows what he can get now. The union is looking for ways to increase productivity on the mainline side, and will put those furloughs in new airplanes to keep jobs and dues flowing. Malone and Wycoff stated the recall deal just before re-entering into negotiations, which probably means they won't just forget about the furloughs.....It will be interesting no doubt.

I don't know if Kolshak actually said that, but that would mean increased productivity, right? We also have many many senior pilots flying greenslips--or double pay on your days off. I don't mind that too much right now because we have lost over 400 Captains since May--and without that--flights would be cancelled.(They are also loading up with greenslips to help their FAEs and have a great last year of their best three years--which will result in a larger pension---after we get pay cuts--expect them to bail out) But, as they continue to train more and more Captains---they will slowly stop and the furloughs will hopefully return--and maybe on some NEW aircraft....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Palerider957]

How is DAL going to buy ANY new aircraft?? They can't even afford to hedge fuel.

We all speculate about new 100 seat aircraft and where they will go, but how will they be financed? Who will lend DAL the money? With $20 billion in debt and teetering on the edge of BK, DAL is about as bad a credit risk as can be imagined.

Seriously General, this is not good. ASA/CMR have always turned a buck and been good credit risks, but DAL has dragged us down as well.

My own speculation is that the August announcement will be a major contraction of DAL, followed by a lot more outsourcing of flying (with much of it NOT going to ASA/CMR).

Hate to be doom and gloom, but $20 BILLION is a hell of a monkey to have on your back.

 

[General Lee]

Palerider,


USAir bought $4.5 billion worth of new RJs in CHAP 11. Spirit bought 30 new Airbus with only $150 million in seed money from a private equity group. As soon as we give them a boat load of cash, our bond ratings will JUMP. (they can only go up) That will give us the access to "cheaper cash" to borrow--and we will refinance (AA did the day after their unions gave up cash). The manufacturers probably will be there waiting. And, as everyone says---Canadair aircraft are easy to finance---almost "giving them away..." Maybe the CR9 will come into play.....and please, please, don't tell me you have fallen for the "ASA and Comair are bailing out Delta crap?" Those numbers can be manipulated. Do you pay for reservations or distribution (Delta.com)? There are many many other costs that you do not pay for--and if you did, would cost you a bunch. I know you are smarter than that.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MedFlyer]

How is DAL going to buy ANY new aircraft?? They can't even afford to hedge fuel.

We all speculate about new 100 seat aircraft and where they will go, but how will they be financed? Who will lend DAL the money? With $20 billion in debt and teetering on the edge of BK, DAL is about as bad a credit risk as can be imagined.

Seriously General, this is not good. ASA/CMR have always turned a buck and been good credit risks, but DAL has dragged us down as well.

My own speculation is that the August announcement will be a major contraction of DAL, followed by a lot more outsourcing of flying (with much of it NOT going to ASA/CMR).

Hate to be doom and gloom, but $20 BILLION is a hell of a monkey to have on your back.

I've asked this same question. It's nice to argue about who should fly the 70-100 seaters, but this argument is kind of a waste if DL doesn't have the dough to acquire these planes.

Even with demand growing, I can definitely see DL forced into a contraction mode over the next few years. We already know the 732's will start being returned next year and their is no replacement scheduled at this time. Also, if DL management is trying to prepare DL for a future merger, it's likely that they will want to begin shedding undesireable fleet types.

 

[General Lee]

Medflyer,


There are and will be protections in our contract that will not allow a merger---without us going to the top of the seniority list etc.... And, the Gov't will not allow any overlapping when it comes to hubs etc---which might prove costly in the NYC area....


As far as the aircraft aquisitions---just look at USAir and the $4.5 billion order while still in Chap 11---you can't get around that order--can you? Why would there be contraction? The passengers are "back"---we actually need larger planes to bring in the number of passengers needed to try to make a profit. The 50 seat RJs may be contracted---or contracted out.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MedFlyer]

Medflyer,


There are and will be protections in our contract that will not allow a merger---without us going to the top of the seniority list etc.... And, the Gov't will not allow any overlapping when it comes to hubs etc---which might prove costly in the NYC area....


As far as the aircraft aquisitions---just look at USAir and the $4.5 billion order while still in Chap 11---you can't get around that order--can you? Why would there be contraction? The passengers are "back"---we actually need larger planes to bring in the number of passengers needed to try to make a profit. The 50 seat RJs may be contracted---or contracted out.

Bye Bye--General Lee

What if DL is in BK...all your merger protections can be thrown out the window. As for the gov't not allowing any overlap, that's bull. AMR was allowed to pick up TWA despite the fact that STL and ORD have a huge amount of overlap. Eventually, when carriers reach such a failing state that there is no hope for them, the gov't will allow mergers. DL's overlap with CO in NYC is pretty minimal....DL would likely abandon most of the JFK operation anyway (just shift the few unique flights like SVO, IST, ATH, NCE over to EWR) and get rid of the rest. This would actually save DL money as the current JFK terminal needs BILLIONS in renovations that DL doesn't have.

USAir got financing because they had a wealthy investor (RSA) to back them up. However, those types of investors are disappearing. After seeing what a disaster USAir has been, do you think investors are going to rush out and help DL? The ATSB gave USAir a loan-guarantee, but then refused UAL. Just because one carrer gets money...doesn't mean another will. Your logic if faulty...as usual.

The reason for contraction is that DL can't make money on many of the routes it flies. It does NOT matter how big the plane, DL can't make money. DL can replace every RJ with a 737 and they'd still lose money.

 

[General Lee]

Come on Medflyer. In Chap 11---you still have to negotiate. New rules were put into affect after Lorenzo tried to go into Chap 11 to change contracts. If the parties do not agree---the pilots could still strike--and management would not like to lose the "money train" they are used to--would they? You knew that, right?


As far as comparing overlapping with TWA's STL hub and AA's ORD---I am talking more in the lines of UA and USAir's DC operations. Look at how they were quickly denied since they had hubs (USAir kinda had one at DCA) in the same city. Well, look at Delta and let's just say--CO. Delta has hubs at JFK (now putting an extra $300 million into that crappy terminal) and the Shuttle at LGA with the MAT or Marine Air terminal. Why would they get rid of the JFK ops again? We are spending sooo much money on it. I doubt that--you have no proof of that. JFK is the primary entry point into the USA---and we own flights to Europe--and they make money. Continental just got a new terminal at EWR---brand spanking new. Do you think a merger would occur with three hubs in one city? Nope. Give me another merger option---I can only think of DL and CO....

Did AA have big investors before they got refinanced? Nope. But they did---immediately after negotiations ended. And, would there be any new investors if Delta got it's costs under control? Sure there would. We carry more people domestically than anyone else, and we have the busiest hub in the world. We have debt--and $6 billion is from you guys---which could be transferred if we were ever to sell you off.

Well, as far as making money on any aircraft---RJs and the new weight problems aren't helping your cause. Why is Airtran getting rid of their RJs? Why doesn't Southwest have RJs? Sure, they don't hit all of the smaller cities we do---but using them on old mainline routes will probably stop in the future--since $50 fares and 50 seats don't match.....(don't tell Indy that....)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Palerider957]

Palerider,


USAir bought $4.5 billion worth of new RJs in CHAP 11. Spirit bought 30 new Airbus with only $150 million in seed money from a private equity group. As soon as we give them a boat load of cash, our bond ratings will JUMP. (they can only go up) That will give us the access to "cheaper cash" to borrow--and we will refinance (AA did the day after their unions gave up cash). The manufacturers probably will be there waiting. And, as everyone says---Canadair aircraft are easy to finance---almost "giving them away..." Maybe the CR9 will come into play.....and please, please, don't tell me you have fallen for the "ASA and Comair are bailing out Delta crap?" Those numbers can be manipulated. Do you pay for reservations or distribution (Delta.com)? There are many many other costs that you do not pay for--and if you did, would cost you a bunch. I know you are smarter than that.
Bye Bye--General Lee

General, I wouldn't say that ASA/CMR are "saving Delta." If that were true then DAL wouldn't be in the position it is. All I know is that CMR/ASA are cash machines, always have been, probably always will be. I don't know how the internal auditing goes at DAL (no one on these boards does), but I do know that DAL "charges" us everytime we use our own (that is original ASA) ground power equipment and services. All of our contracts are held hostage to DAL (cabin services, major engine maint., and others) We used to have our own reservation system (called "Cowboy"), but DAL wanted to make a change....in short, ASA and I suspect CMR pay for PLENTY. This is all speculation on both of our parts as we don't have the DAL books in front of us.

As for financing planes, it's still pretty challenging. As other airlines struggle financially, the amount of capital for borrowing will diminish. Aircraft manufacturers have investors as well and they have to be reasonable in their asset allocation.

USAir may have bought a ton of RJ's in CH11, history will tell if that was a wise idea for the creditors. If USAir tanks, then you can bet banks will think long and hard before loaning that kind of cash.

Don't get me wrong General, I would love a major positive restructuring, with new planes for both of us. It would be great to see furloughed guys back in the cockpit, and expansion at the DCI national level (notice I didn't say regional)

I'm just trying to be realistic.

 

[MedFlyer]

Come on Medflyer. In Chap 11---you still have to negotiate. New rules were put into affect after Lorenzo tried to go into Chap 11 to change contracts. If the parties do not agree---the pilots could still strike--and management would not like to lose the "money train" they are used to--would they? You knew that, right?

Are the pilots willing to strike? That would end your money train too. Most of DL's management already has their money...a strike isn't going to scare them.

As far as comparing overlapping with TWA's STL hub and AA's ORD---I am talking more in the lines of UA and USAir's DC operations. Look at how they were quickly denied since they had hubs (USAir kinda had one at DCA) in the same city. Well, look at Delta and let's just say--CO. Delta has hubs at JFK (now putting an extra $300 million into that crappy terminal) and the Shuttle at LGA with the MAT or Marine Air terminal. Why would they get rid of the JFK ops again? We are spending sooo much money on it. I doubt that--you have no proof of that. JFK is the primary entry point into the USA---and we own flights to Europe--and they make money. Continental just got a new terminal at EWR---brand spanking new. Do you think a merger would occur with three hubs in one city? Nope. Give me another merger option---I can only think of DL and CO....

The difference is that when UA/US tried merging, neither were failing carriers (at that time!!!). There was no need to allow a merger. However, AA was able to acquire TWA because TWA was failing.

In the case of DL/CO, the NYC overlap isn't that big. The $300 million DL is spending at JFK is just for cosmetic changes. If the JFK Europe flights are sooo profitable, why has DL cancelled so many of them? Look at the new Europe flights DL launched this year.......JFK got none. But even if those 12 Euro flights are profitable, the rest of DL's operation at JFK is redundant and could easily be cancelled if DL wants to merge with CO. If DL really wants to merge with CO, they can sell off enough to make Uncle Sam happy.

Did AA have big investors before they got refinanced? Nope. But they did---immediately after negotiations ended. And, would there be any new investors if Delta got it's costs under control? Sure there would. We carry more people domestically than anyone else, and we have the busiest hub in the world. We have debt--and $6 billion is from you guys---which could be transferred if we were ever to sell you off.

How many new planes has AA ordered since they restructured? I don't see AA going out and buying hundreds of new planes. In fact, AA continues to retire mainline planes (F100's).

Well, as far as making money on any aircraft---RJs and the new weight problems aren't helping your cause. Why is Airtran getting rid of their RJs? Why doesn't Southwest have RJs? Sure, they don't hit all of the smaller cities we do---but using them on old mainline routes will probably stop in the future--since $50 fares and 50 seats don't match.....(don't tell Indy that....)

Bye Bye--General Lee

Why does DL fly widebodies domestically? DL has to practically give the seats away in order to fill those planes. RJ's won't solve DL's problems, but neither will flooding the market with 757's. Your strategy General of flooding the market will simply drive yields lower to a level where DL can never make money.

 

[InclusiveScope]

Medflyer,

As far as the aircraft aquisitions---just look at USAir and the $4.5 billion order while still in Chap 11---you can't get around that order--can you? Why would there be contraction? The passengers are "back"---we actually need larger planes to bring in the number of passengers needed to try to make a profit. The 50 seat RJs may be contracted---or contracted out.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
You really don't get it do you? The passengers are back this summer at super low fares to fill the airplanes. The planes are full and we are losing buckets of money each day because the yields are too low. Larger airplanes would pressure yields further. Looking forward to the fall, the yields are even LOWER than they are now and the bookings are dismal. It is going to be a long cold winter I'm afraid. Keep those rose colored glasses on General....

 

[SSDD]

General,

Just have a question, are you guys willing to fly 100 seaters for Jetblue rates? Less than Com/ASA/SKW 70 seaters?

Just trying to get a feel of where things are going.

Thanks

 

[General Lee]

Medflyer and Inclusivescope,


You guys are the ones who don't get it. Let me take on each stance:

Medflyer,

Would we strike rather than get a bad deal and lose seniority---ummmm YES. That is one thing that would force a strike. Sorry.

A DL and CO merger would have lots of obstacles to clear--and NYC is one of them. We still have more transatlantic flights than anyone else, and we dropped most of those cities when we were doing well. We stopped flying to those cities before 9-11, and we also parked a lot of the planes that could have been used to fly those. Our Domestic ERs have always flown Domestic, but have the fuel capability and fuel dump capability required to fly those long flights. Maybe I heard it from someone in the CPO. We all know that our INTL flights have no LCC competition---and it makes sense. Also, I have heard about 767ER domestic replacements--coming from the desert--but I won't give that fully away....

AA has sold off the Fokkers, but have bought a heck of a lot more new 70 seat CRJs---and that is fine. Look at NW and their new stance--their MEC said they would fly anything 70 seats and up. I bet our MEC is looking at the same--and our 737-200 leases are slowly going to expire from next year to 2008, Heck, 3 of our MD-11 leases don't expire until 2015.

Why do we fly widebodies domestically? What? Have you been to ATL lately? We funnel in a bunch of passengers each day--from all over--INTL and domestic. Have you seen our 764s and 763s flying hourly to FLL and MCO? So, we should stop those and put MD-88s on them? I am not in charge of the fares--but at the current low fares thanks to Spirit, Jetblue, Airtran etc--we need more seats to try to squeeze a profit. Lower fares and less seats don't mix. We also carry tons of cargo and mail. I recently did a 767-300 flight from ATL to ANC and back (nice layover), and we carried mail and a lot of fresh fish. I guess we shouldn't do that anymore....


Inclusivescope,

What are you talking about? With the low fares out there, we need to have bigger planes---not smaller. Why does Southwest have 737s and not RJs? The lower fares can still squeeze out a profit with more seats compared to 50 seats. The problem we have now is higher costs--which are being addressed. When those come down, we will compete better. Why would Delta create Song with 199 seats instead of 119 seats on Delta Express? Are you smarter than our Delta execs incharge of these things? You are? Ok. Song has actually turned a profit in the first quarter (as stated in public by Grinstein and Salvaggio---lying could lead to jail time).

As far as this Fall and Winter---let me break something to you-----Fall is ALWAYS slower than Summer. Yep, it might be hard to believe--but a lot of passengers are students, and they go back to school. We have already prepared for this partially by removing some flights on TUE and WED at Song--instead allowing some of the planes to get heavy maintenence done. That is smart. As far as Winter goes--sure, it may be slower--but the Holidays always bring in the loads, and then we start over again with our best times--Spring and Summer. It is a cycle. By the time our cycles start in the Fall--we will have already given back some cash (or the TA will be ready)--and that will help.


SSDD,

Do we have a choice? Thanks to those new rates---we will have to stay "competitive". That $ucks, but in the past Dalpa has gone for the lower rates to keep jobs (Delta Express), and right now we have over 1000 pilots still on the street, and Malone stated he wanted the recall rates to continue in some form. That sounds like we will be making a play for any new aircraft.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MedFlyer]

So basically what you are saying General is that DL should just keep flooding the market with seats and driving yields lower and lower and lower? What happens when fares between JFK and Florida get down to $19 one-way? Can Song make money on those fares?

Speaking of Song, how do we know if Song is profitable?

Does Song pay for their planes? No.
Does Song pay reservation and distribution costs? No.
Does Song have its own heavy maintenance? No.

You say Comair/ASA aren't profitable because they don't pay those costs, but somehow Song is profitable despite the fact that they don't pay those costs either.

In one post your critcizing management for being stupid and grounding the MD11's, but then your praising management for flooding the market with more seats using Song? So which is it, is management smart or stupid? You can't seem to make up your mind.

You ever get the feeling that maybe DL's strategy of trying to flow every living soul through ATL may not be working? Filling up 764's with trash fares that have to connect through ATL is no way to make money. If having lots of seats is the key to success shouldn't DL be the most successful carrier of all time? DL flies far more big planes domestically than any other carriers....yet DL is losing more money than anyone else. So far, the carriers that have been most successful aren't the ones with the biggest planes.

Why is JetBlue buying smaller planes, General? I thought only bigger planes with more seats were better? Shouldn't JetBlue be buying A321's instead of EMB 190's?

 

[chperplt]

Speaking of Song, how do we know if Song is profitable?

Does Song pay for their planes? No.
Does Song pay reservation and distribution costs? No.
Does Song have its own heavy maintenance? No.

That's an excellent point. Does Song pay for their gas or is that paid for by Delta?

 

[General Lee]

Medflyer,


Wait, wait--you are twisting my words and the facts.

As far as having more seat--yes--you need to flood the market on some routes to keep the competitors out or cause them to leave. Why did AA start F100 service out of DAL when Legend started? To flood that market and eventually it worked. Why did TED and Frontier start more service from DEN to FLL---it bumped Spirit out. Sure, it can affect earnings--but it is a necessary evil sometimes. As far as all of our Widebody service from ATL to FLA---we have the passengers and we have millions of Skymiles members who want to go there. They will pay more money on our other routes to get free tickets to warm FLA in the Winter. Sad but true.

Does Song make a profit? Yes, according to Grinstein and Salvaggio. Does DCI make a profit? Yes, according to Grinstein. No dispute there. But, does it cost money for Song and DCI to operate and does Delta spend a lot fo cash on both of them? Yes, and you aren't willing to accept that! I bet Delta paid to paint the Song planes--heck, I didn't pay for it. We all know that---it is just YOU aren't willing to accept the fact that Delta is subsidizing a lot of your business. That is the key here---you wouldn't be AS profitable without help from Mainline Delta---but you wish to take all of the credit for "saving us."

Yes, I critisized Delta for parking the MD-11s after the Iraq War started---primarily because our VP of Marketing came out and said we "left money on the table" after that Summer was over. She said we could have used them---but we parked them fearing nobody would fly to Europe. Boy was she wrong. I flew twice to Europe that year (last year) and had to sit in the cockpit 3 out of the 4 legs---no seats left. As far as INTL markets go--we should have kept those MD-11s flying--and we probably would have even more revenue flowing right now if we had. Obviously domestic routes are hurting us with the lower fares right now--but not the INTL routes--which really are saving our bacon. But, we parked the planes--still paying $15,000 a day on each sitting in the desert--and 3 have leases until 2015. So, I want you to get this straight in your head now---I think we needed to keep the MD-11s flying (as long as we are paying for them) on lucrative INTL routes, and we also need domestic widebodies with more seats to help spread out the costs and bring in some cargo revenue. Got it?

Our hub system in ATL is a great system, because we have to buy equipment once (until it breaks)--and use it all day long with many aircraft flying in each day using it. The way to make money is to consistantly fill our hubs with as many passengers as possible and soomthly get them through the hub with little problems. We have passengers coming in from INTL destinations that pay higher fares than some domestic, and passengers flying in on RJs form smaller cities that don't have LCC competition--which results in higher fares. Some of those passengers come off the RJs (from Peoria for example)--and pay more to fly to FLA on those 764 because there is no direct service from PIA. So, not every fare on those 764s are bottom fares. Same goes for the people who want to go to Liberia, Costa Rica, or St.Thomas. Not every fare is cheap. But, you knew that.

Why is Jetblue buying smaller planes? Hmmmm. They have found out that on some routes the A320 doesn't fit--like to some Upstate NY cities. But, they did figure out how many seats would be needed to squeeze a profit--and it wasn't 50 or 70 seats. They probably won't put those planes on established NYC--FLA routes--but to new ones like to Daytona Beach, JAX, Melbourne, Sarasota etc---which would put them against your 50 and 70 seaters. We will have to get larger planes also to compete. Do you think your 50 seat Comair RJ could compete from NYC (LGA or JFK) to Savanah with a Jetblue Emb-190? That must make you nervous. Their A320s will still grow in numbers(I guess they could swap A321s in future orders or options), and they will continue to deploy them on markets they think they can fill them with. That makes sense--and we can fill our 764s to LAS, LAX, TPA, MCO, FLL, MIA, etc--all year round. Now we are also starting our 764s to Lima, Peru--where we fill up the plane with passengers and aspergus. (you don't want that extra cargo, right?$$$$)

Had enough yet? I thought so.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[standaman]

Could not resist

I now see why nobody flies on Delta anymore. The planes are full of nothing but aspergus and fish.