DL expects 70% rise in yearly pretax profit this year---article

[General Lee]

I wouldn't worry too much about it, like you said it's going to get better, I'm sure of it! Unfortunately not everyone has the financial evaluation skills that you do.

Delta's financial position is getting worse not better. The growth of the company's off-balance-sheet liabilities is larger than the reduction in the company's on-balance-sheet debt.
Most of the off-balance-sheet liabilities are related to employee benefits, which have a senior claim to the company's cash flows over any debt. Here's the scoop: DAL boosted its 2011 earnings by increasing its expected return on plan assets (EROPA) assumption for its pensions to 8.93%, up from 8.82% in 2010. Page 78 in DAL's 2012 10-K filing has the details. For readers who wonder whether 8.93% is abnormally high, the answer is yes. Out of the 1,021 companies with pensions that I cover, 98% of them have a lower EROPA. Only 96 of the 1,021 raised their EROPAs in 2012 while 525 lowered and 400 made no changes. In other words, DAL's EROPA assumption is not only among the highest but it is also rising when the majority is falling. Assuming such a high EROPA lowers the amount of money that DAL has to pay into its pensions, which lowers the company's overall expenses and increases accounting earnings. One could argue that stretching the limits of EROPA and minimizing the amount of money it pays into its pensions is a fair and good strategy for a company whose pensions were adequately funded. That argument does not hold water for Delta as its pensions were under-funded by $14.1 billion

In Over Their Heads

These companies have pension liabilities that equal or exceed their market value. Below, each firm's liability as a percentage of market cap.
AK Steel 917%
Unisys 562
Resolute Forest Products 516
United States Steel 439
Exelis 228
Navistar International 196
Alcoa 179
Goddyear Tire and Rubber 174
Huntington Ingalls Industries 174
General Motors 173
RR Donnelley & Sons 171
J.C. Penney 148
Northrop Grumman 142
Lockheed Martin 133
Delta Air Lines 132
Sears Holdings 118
Raytheon 116
ALLEGHENY Technologies 105
Textron 100
Boeing 100

Market capitalization data as of July 5, 2013.

http://online.barrons.com/article/S...578573313679938382.html#articleTabs_article=1

Howie,

Thanks for all the digging. You forgot the one thing that has the most debt and pension liability, the US Government. We are all hosed eventually, and then Mars will attack.

Good try, and I'll enjoy my profit sharing checks and higher rates than yours. Huge profits each year will pay down those pension liabilities, plus higher interest rates will help eventually. You know that! Thanks for doing the research Jimmy Kramer!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[JT12345]

Sorry pal but those words came directly from Delta's 2012 10K not me.

Paying a pension isn't a crime, but NOT paying one should be. Pension promises shouldn't be made if they aren't intended to be paid. Don't pawn off the obligations to the PBGC so it becomes all of our problems! If they were taking some of those massive profits and funding their pension plans it wouldn't be an issue! Currently they are underfunded by a staggering $13.1 BILLION.

That is bull ********************. Some companies act like banks in October 2008 I guess.

 

[HowardBorden]

That is bull ********************. Some companies act like banks in October 2008 I guess.

????????

 

[HowardBorden]

Howie,

Thanks for all the digging. You forgot the one thing that has the most debt and pension liability, the US Government.

So, you're planning another run through the bankruptcy process then?

PBGC has determined that the plan sponsor and each of its corporate affiliates have satisfied at least one of the following financial distress tests though not necessarily the same test:

• A petition has been filed seeking liquidation in bankruptcy;
• A petition has been filed seeking reorganization in bankruptcy, and the bankruptcy court (or an appropriate state court) has determined that the company will not be able to reorganize with the plan intact and approves the plan termination;
• It has been demonstrated that the sponsor or affiliate cannot continue in business unless the plan is terminated

 

[General Lee]

So, you're planning another run through the bankruptcy process then?

PBGC has determined that the plan sponsor and each of its corporate affiliates have satisfied at least one of the following financial distress tests though not necessarily the same test:

• A petition has been filed seeking liquidation in bankruptcy;
• A petition has been filed seeking reorganization in bankruptcy, and the bankruptcy court (or an appropriate state court) has determined that the company will not be able to reorganize with the plan intact and approves the plan termination;
• It has been demonstrated that the sponsor or affiliate cannot continue in business unless the plan is terminated

Howie is smoking dope again? Where are the drug tests when he needs one? He must have missed the article:

Dec 11 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc : * During investor day webcast, carrier says it expects $2.6 billion pretax profit for 2013, up 70 percent over 2012 * Carrier sees 'some modest global economic improvement' taking shape in 2014 * Passenger unit revenue is expected to rise 2 percent to 3 percent in
fourth quarter * Carrier expects revenue of nearly $40 billion in 2014.




Ummm, the plan will be paid off early at the rate these profits are coming in. Add raises, profit sharing, and paid off pension debt and long term debt. Did you know DL paid down $2.1 billion in debt this year according to the conference call? There is also $500 million in profit sharing for employees alone. Generating that type of cash and paying down debts, you really don't have to worry..... Thanks anyway...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[dalad]

Ummmm, 6-7% of W2 is the rumor I'm hearing, beating last year's 4.5%. I'd say that's pretty darn good....


Bye Bye---General Lee

Mine was 6.5% of W-2 last year.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I wouldn't worry too much about it, like you said it's going to get better, I'm sure of it! Unfortunately not everyone has the financial evaluation skills that you do.

Delta's financial position is getting worse not better. The growth of the company's off-balance-sheet liabilities is larger than the reduction in the company's on-balance-sheet debt.
Most of the off-balance-sheet liabilities are related to employee benefits, which have a senior claim to the company's cash flows over any debt. Here's the scoop: DAL boosted its 2011 earnings by increasing its expected return on plan assets (EROPA) assumption for its pensions to 8.93%, up from 8.82% in 2010. Page 78 in DAL's 2012 10-K filing has the details. For readers who wonder whether 8.93% is abnormally high, the answer is yes. Out of the 1,021 companies with pensions that I cover, 98% of them have a lower EROPA. Only 96 of the 1,021 raised their EROPAs in 2012 while 525 lowered and 400 made no changes. In other words, DAL's EROPA assumption is not only among the highest but it is also rising when the majority is falling. Assuming such a high EROPA lowers the amount of money that DAL has to pay into its pensions, which lowers the company's overall expenses and increases accounting earnings. One could argue that stretching the limits of EROPA and minimizing the amount of money it pays into its pensions is a fair and good strategy for a company whose pensions were adequately funded. That argument does not hold water for Delta as its pensions were under-funded by $14.1 billion

In Over Their Heads

These companies have pension liabilities that equal or exceed their market value. Below, each firm's liability as a percentage of market cap.
AK Steel 917%
Unisys 562
Resolute Forest Products 516
United States Steel 439
Exelis 228
Navistar International 196
Alcoa 179
Goddyear Tire and Rubber 174
Huntington Ingalls Industries 174
General Motors 173
RR Donnelley & Sons 171
J.C. Penney 148
Northrop Grumman 142
Lockheed Martin 133
Delta Air Lines 132
Sears Holdings 118
Raytheon 116
ALLEGHENY Technologies 105
Textron 100
Boeing 100

Market capitalization data as of July 5, 2013.

http://online.barrons.com/article/S...578573313679938382.html#articleTabs_article=1

You are a clown....paying down debt, paying cash for jets, paying a dividend, paying hundreds of millions in profit sharing and you, the FI wizard thinks Delta's financials are getting worse?

You have zero knowledge of anything going on over here Cramer....
Go to a SWA board and circle jerk all your Herb turd friends.

Btw, is your pension funded? Oh that's right, it's PLANE NUTS to have one there!

 

[slaquer5]

GL you do realize that for all your cheer leading DAL isn't go to even remember your name 5 minutes after you walk off the property? How'd that unyielding loyalty work out in bankruptcy?

You do relize , GL is not even a pilot , let a lone , a pilot for. DAL


GL is an angery women ,who got scorned by some SWA pilot years ago .

 

[Mercyful Fate]

You do relize , GL is not even a pilot , let a lone , a pilot for. DAL


GL is an angery women ,who got scorned by some SWA pilot years ago .

Genital is a parrot that blabs things he reads on airliners.net....Amazing how many people here have bought into his pretend world

 

[General Lee]

You do relize , GL is not even a pilot , let a lone , a pilot for. DAL


GL is an angery women ,who got scorned by some SWA pilot years ago .

In your dreams! Quit dreaming that, btw. You are gross! And, you had great usage of punctuation above. Well. Done. Sir.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Genital is a parrot that blabs things he reads on airliners.net....Amazing how many people here have bought into his pretend world

Forest Dump, King of the Minot lav dumpers returns! And again, he has nothing to contribute.... Yet again... Hey watch it, that Allegiant MD83 from Sanford is inbound with plenty of stuff for you to dump. Where's your pal Freebrd?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Mine was 6.5% of W-2 last year.

John,

You may actually be correct. I took the gross, subtracted the profit sharing and monthly "shared rewards" payments ($1200?), and got about what you stated. Hopefully this year's (next Feb 14th) will be even higher.


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

It will be GL.....2.6 Billion mark reached announced by Ed yesterday.

But then again, 737 Chimp Howard Borden says we are losing money so believe the all-knowing village idiot if you want.

 

[redflyer65]

Losing money? No.

Massive Debt? Yes.

 

[General Lee]

December 12, 2013 1:55 PM ET
Delta Air Lines: Please Sir, Can I Have Some More?
By Ben Levisohn
Delta Air Lines (DAL) has gained 133% so far this year, but that hasn?t stopped the folks at Barclays from putting it "at the top of [its] airlines list for 2014."

Bloomberg News

Sure that gain is huge, both on its own terms and relative to its competitors. Delta has outgained nearly all its peers, as Southwest Airlines (LUV) has gained 82% in 2013, Alaska Air (ALK) has risen 68% and United Continental (UAL) is up 61%. Spirit Airlines (SAVE), with a 144% rise, was one of the few airlines to trump Delta.


So why is Barclays still bullish? David Fintzen and team explain why they left Delta's investor meeting yesterday feeling optimistic:

The focus was rightfully on the "sustainability" question that we think remains central to the long-term upside in DAL shares. Specifically, a long-term operating margin target of 10-12% was encouraging, but also strikes us as realistic given the initiatives (re-fleeting, etc) underway. Secondly, we were encouraged by comments that margin improvement can still come from the ?core? of the network, not just the outliers. It's hard for us to quantify, but setting a high threshold (i.e. not simply accepting an 8% margin) in a route/city/hub strikes us as a seemingly simple mindset change that matters (and needs to become engrained in the industry).

On the cost side, similarly, multiple comments around "restoring balance to the supply chain" strike us as similarly hard to quantify, but indicative of an expectation to push margins higher.


Delta has gained 1.9% to $28.19 today at 1:48 p.m., while United Continental has risen 3.4% to $37.83, Spirit Airlines has advanced 2.2% to $43.32, and Southwest, which was upgraded by Merrill Lynch today, has jumped 3.6% to $18.62. Alaska Air has dropped 1.3% to $72.49.


And Red said SWA did better stock wise? Yeah, right....



Bye Bye---General Lee