DL COO on RJs and the "future"........?

[General Lee]

Copied from Sinca3--from the DL E170 thread...



thought these comments from Jim Whitehurst (COO DAL) during a employee chat session on 5/11/06 were intresting:
Question 1- The Cost per Available Seat Mile of the regional jets is very high in comparison to mainline service, and passengers are beginning to dislike flying them, especially on some of the longer flights. Are the numbers of RJs in Delta's fleet justified by the revenue generation they produce in some of the smaller cities?
Answer from Jim Whitehurst:
Currently, RJ CASMs are significantly higher than mainline. That was not the case prior to our 2004 restructuring, when our mainline costs were high and fuel costs were low (RJs are much less fuel efficient on a CASM basis). Clearly given our new mainline cost structure and current high fuel costs, I'd rather have more mainline aircraft and fewer RJs. Getting new mainline aircraft will take time. In the interim, we need to continue serving those cities. So, while we are reducing our number of RJs substantially while in bankruptcy, they will remain a core part of our fleet.
Question 2- Presubmitted Question The 737-200's and 737-300's will be retiring more this fall. You have mentioned that they might be replaced eventually by 737-700's or smaller 70 or 90 seat jets. If they are replaced with the smaller planes, other than the 737-700, won't there be a loss of more Delta jobs, pilots, flight attendants, and possibly ground staff since a Connection Carrier would be flying those jets? If that is true, is there anyway for Delta mainline pilots and flight attendants to work those planes. Yes, Delta would be expanding, but Delta people would continue to be downsized. Can you address these issues?
Answer from Jim Whitehurst- Any aircraft above 76 seats will be flown by mainline. To be clear, the 76 seaters are a marginal economic boost over a 70 seater (required post NW ability to fly them.) We view them as a 70 seater with slightly better economics. They do not replace our need for a 100 seater in the mainline. Any 100 seater would be in the mainline and will likely be growth aircraft, creating new jobs.




Could this be said to influence the TA vote? Hmmmmm.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

DALPA "the line in the sand is 50 seats"
DALPA "the line in the sand is 70 seats"
DALPA "the line in the sand is 76 seats"

Anyone else see a trend here?
737

 

[Rogue5]

Hey Jen,

Are you laying the propaganda groundwork for your own "yes" vote even though you guaranteed you and 50.1% of your buddies would vote it down if it allowed anything more than 70 seats?

Hypocrite...

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

Of Course, I just want to take the opportunity to express to everyone that Herr Richard Cranium is DEFFINATEY NOT here to stir up some stink. No our lovely lady Lea is here to 'educate' and 'debate'.

Why else would this be posted here?!

 

[737 Pylt]

Of Course, I just want to take the opportunity to express to everyone that Herr Richard Cranium is DEFFINATEY NOT here to stir up some stink. No our lovely lady Lea is here to 'educate' and 'debate'.

Better than being a tool and flaming! Imagine, having enough time just to create a user account for stalking!
737

 

[General Lee]

Of Course, I just want to take the opportunity to express to everyone that Herr Richard Cranium is DEFFINATEY NOT here to stir up some stink. No our lovely lady Lea is here to 'educate' and 'debate'.

Why else would this be posted here?!

I just copied (and even gave credit to Sinca3) what was posted on the Delta.net. Then I just asked a question. Sounds like educate and debate to me. Why was it posted here? It deals with possible 76 seaters and regional jet flying. You are welcome. You can't slam me on this one, since all I did was paste and ask a question.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

Better than being a tool and flaming! Imagine, having enough time just to create a user account for stalking!
737

Gee its just like being the TOOL that posts stuff just to stir up controversy? And then getting upset when someone responds?

 

[General Lee]

Better than being a tool and flaming! Imagine, having enough time just to create a user account for stalking!
737

It is kinda scary. Will he name his first kid after me? Does he have GL tatoos? Does he have one above his rear end? (aren't those called tramp stamps now?) That would be weird. Yikes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

I just copied (and even gave credit to Sinca3) what was posted on the Delta.net. Then I just asked a question. Sounds like educate and debate to me. Why was it posted here? It deals with possible 76 seaters and regional jet flying. You are welcome. You can't slam me on this one, since all I did was paste and ask a question.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Yeah right..... just here to debate. What a crock

 

[General Lee]

Gee its just like being the TOOL that posts stuff just to stir up controversy? And then getting upset when someone responds?

Did I get upset? I don't mind the debate. You and your stalking posse usually start with the slams.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

Better than being a tool and flaming! Imagine, having enough time just to create a user account for stalking!
737

Or almost as lame croping a picture of your jet and using it as an avitar.


Do you think there are Lawyer TOOLs that take pictures of their desks and post them on mesage boards? TOOL!

 

[General Lee]

Yeah right..... just here to debate. What a crock

Read those quotes from Whitehurst and tell me what you think. See, it is that easy. I will tell you my opinion after reading yours. There you go.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

You and your stalking posse usually start with the slams.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I guess you call people that confuse you with facts as Stalkers.

To all others, they are the ones that Call BS on your fantay claims.

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

So anyway, how is the 8.47 ,million per day loss going?

Just an honest quetsion? Would you say this is inflamatory?!

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

Did I get upset?
Bye Bye--General Lee

I do remember you got a couple of days in the corner by yourself.

 

[~~~^~~~]

>
>

The line in the sand was 105 seats, here is a picture

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/003341/L

DALPA "the line in the sand is 50 seats"
DALPA "the line in the sand is 70 seats"
DALPA "the line in the sand is 76 seats"

Anyone else see a trend here?
737

Yes, I see a trend by which ALPA unilaterally negotiates on behalf of the Delta pilots without the input, participation, or vote of the other ALPA's members who's wages and working conditions are effected.

You want to fix scope, you need to have all the participants in the flying participating in the negotiations.

 

[General Lee]

So anyway, how is the 8.47 ,million per day loss going?

Just an honest quetsion? Would you say this is inflamatory?!

When United lost $12 billion in one quarter, how many millions would that be each day? You obviously believe that. There is your debate.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

Huh... so the whole BK is just an illusion to you?

Are you sticking your head in the sand?

Have you decided what market you plan on going into if things go south in ATL?

 

[General Lee]

The line in the sand was 105 seats


Yes, I see a trend by which ALPA unilaterally negotiates on behalf of the Delta pilots without the input, participation, or vote of the other ALPA's members who's wages and working conditions are effected.

You want to fix scope, you need to have all the participants in the flying participating in the negotiations.

The trend seems to be slowing, with 20 seat jumps from 50 to 70, and then a possible 6 seat jump. Whitehurst, who will probably take over for Jerry Grinstein, seems to know the RJ limits. With revenue increasing across the board, it would be insane to replace MD88s that carry over 140 passengers with 76 seat RJs. That being said, it isn't bad to have some extra first class seats to reward our medallion passengers for having to fly on an RJ. Would it be better to just install some first class seats on our existing or future 70 seaters (CR7s)? Sure. Will that happen? Probably not. Whitehurst also knows that mainline costs have come down substantially thanks to BK (for all employee groups), and that will make it easier to buy an eventual 100 seater for mainline. (his words) We shall see.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Huh... so the whole BK is just an illusion to you?

Are you sticking your head in the sand?

Have you decided what market you plan on going into if things go south in ATL?

No, it aint. But, even Whitehurst said in his town meeting (that you didn't go to or were invited to) said that most of the extra costs were paper in nature. A question about our huge "loss" for the quarter was brought up. He said that was a part of the process. He said to watch the cash on hand as a barometer, and it has been increasing. But, you know otherwise. I pointed out your lack of understanding on quarterly losses, and the United example is a perfect one to refute your claims. And then YOU actually fail to debate, and instead deny, and denegrate. Wow, a total 360 back at you. Read your above quote to me. You couldn't even debate me, so you try to slam.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

I guess you call people that confuse you with facts as Stalkers.

To all others, they are the ones that Call BS on your fantay claims.

Seven posts on this thread SmokingGuy and not once did you respond to the original post, but you did take the opportunity to slam the General, as if that is your sole purpose in life. How sad for you.

Whitehurst has simply stated what most of us have known for sometime, the RJ glut is here. RJ CASM is through the roof and without high yield passengers we can all expect fewer RJs down the road. There are plans for a modest number of 76 seat aircraft, but they will hardly match the large numbers of 50 seaters going to the desert. The DCI footprint on the DAL network will certainly shrink in the future.

One thing is for sure, the pain for DAL pilots and the pilots of DCI contractors will continue until DAL exits BK and becomes a profitable airline.

 

[Lolikoka]

Was it a rhetorical question?

I thought this would be a decent thread before it got hijacked by a jihadist crusade of insults. So - now back to the original question posed by Lee - is it just management PR to get the T/A passed?

You posed the question Lee - what do you think?

 

[~~~^~~~]

The trend seems to be slowing, with 20 seat jumps from 50 to 70, and then a possible 6 seat jump.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Why do you ignore the "jump" from 105 seats to 50 seats, with a few 70 seaters? This question is relevant, as the legality of changes made to the CY96 scope is getting closer to trial. I understand that discovery in the suit is pretty much completed and the next phase will see the RJDC litigation on the trial calendar.

The union & Delta have no remedy but to comply with the Court's order when it comes down. Amazingly, ALPA has done nothing to get in a defensive posture other than move their money offshore. I expected ALPA to change, at least to a degree sufficient to convince the Court that it had acted in the best interests of its members. But ALPA has not changed and has illustrated the harm of their malfeasance at US Air and now Northwest.

Perhaps the union is like Delta's management, their time horizon is less than 24 months. You and I will still be here and it would be a whole lot better if our union would plan for its future instead of always reacting to it, after the learn "how far a dog can run into the woods."

Is ALPA's plan for Delta and Comair not to be in the marketplace, therefore ALPA's failure of representation does not matter?

 

[Rogue5]

Wow, a total 360 back at you.

Anyone else see a problem here?

(a 180 degree turn, not 360 turns you around)

Must be tough to navigate when the FMS goes Tango Uniform, eh Jen?

 

[jehtplane]

I thought this would be a decent thread before it got hijacked by a jihadist crusade of insults. So - now back to the original question posed by Lee - is it just management PR to get the T/A passed?

You posed the question Lee - what do you think?

He knows it will pass , he probably voted yes.

 

[Lolikoka]

Maybe - maybe not

Whitehurst has simply stated what most of us have known for sometime, the RJ glut is here. RJ CASM is through the roof and without high yield passengers we can all expect fewer RJs down the road. There are plans for a modest number of 76 seat aircraft, but they will hardly match the large numbers of 50 seaters going to the desert. The DCI footprint on the DAL network will certainly shrink in the future.

I think you're right - 50 seaters may continue to go to the desert for the immediate future - but eventually Delta will come out of bankruptcy, passenger traffic will continue to grow, and airlines will continue to serve lots of small cities whether it makes economic sense or not. I just don't think you can efficiently serve as many small cities as the airlines want to serve if you try to do it with 100-seat airplanes. Also, people in many of those cities pay a premium for air service instead of driving a couple of hours to a hub - so the market for RJs will continue.

Whitehurst mentioned continuing to shrink the number of RJs within the Delta system. Honest question here - who's shrinking besides Comair? I''ve been off doing military stuff for a year and have not kept up with all of the industry news as much as I wanted.

 

[rjcap]

The trend seems to be slowing, with 20 seat jumps from 50 to 70, and then a possible 6 seat jump. Whitehurst, who will probably take over for Jerry Grinstein, seems to know the RJ limits. With revenue increasing across the board, it would be insane to replace MD88s that carry over 140 passengers with 76 seat RJs. That being said, it isn't bad to have some extra first class seats to reward our medallion passengers for having to fly on an RJ. Would it be better to just install some first class seats on our existing or future 70 seaters (CR7s)? Sure. Will that happen? Probably not. Whitehurst also knows that mainline costs have come down substantially thanks to BK (for all employee groups), and that will make it easier to buy an eventual 100 seater for mainline. (his words) We shall see.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I don't intend to flame here but we are not talking about a 76 seat airframe. Its a 90 seater configured in a 2 class 76 configuration.

Do you really think they bought these to fly around 76 people ???

 

[737 Pylt]

Or almost as lame croping a picture of your jet and using it as an avitar.


Do you think there are Lawyer TOOLs that take pictures of their desks and post them on mesage boards? TOOL!

Actually, I think my avitar is pretty cool.....I would post a picture of you, but I couldn't locate any pictures of a horses a$$ anywhere.
Anyway, you missed a couple of the General's responses, now go back and start your creepy stalking!
737

 

[737 Pylt]

Why do you ignore the "jump" from 105 seats to 50 seats, with a few 70 seaters? This question is relevant, as the legality of changes made to the CY96 scope is getting closer to trial. I understand that discovery in the suit is pretty much completed and the next phase will see the RJDC litigation on the trial calendar.

Please....you will be into a size small in depends when that goes to trial!

The union & Delta have no remedy but to comply with the Court's order when it comes down. Amazingly, ALPA has done nothing to get in a defensive posture other than move their money offshore. I expected ALPA to change, at least to a degree sufficient to convince the Court that it had acted in the best interests of its members. But ALPA has not changed and has illustrated the harm of their malfeasance at US Air and now Northwest.

Move their money offshore?? Man, you watch too many Tom Clancy movies?
Don't go spending all your $$millions just yet there sport!

Perhaps the union is like Delta's management, their time horizon is less than 24 months. You and I will still be here and it would be a whole lot better if our union would plan for its future instead of always reacting to it, after the learn "how far a dog can run into the woods."

Or bettery yet, how long can Dan Ford continue this useless crusade? Are you sending in your monthly checks, I hear your lawyer's house in the Hamptons need a new roof!

Is ALPA's plan for Delta and Comair not to be in the marketplace, therefore ALPA's failure of representation does not matter?

Sadly, if this TA passes, we will have nobody to blame but ourselves! As much as your and your girls from the rjdc like to blame alpa, the membership has final say, and I say....Shove this POS! But I am more than likely in the minority!
737

 

[Midge]

Or almost as lame croping a picture of your jet and using it as an avitar.


Do you think there are Lawyer TOOLs that take pictures of their desks and post them on mesage boards? TOOL!

I think you need help man! All your posts are in response to 1 person, even creating a user name to "flame"!
Grab a beer, hang out with the lady, and get laid! It will be alright in the morning! You are taking this internet thing way to seriously!