DL asks to sell 737-8's & get -7's

[~~~^~~~]

Delta Wants Permission to Sell Aircraft
Wednesday December 6, 11:57 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer Delta Air Lines Wants Permission to Sell Aircraft, Acquire Others in Boeing Agreement

ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines Inc., which is operating under bankruptcy protection, asked for court permission late Wednesday to sell certain Boeing aircraft and acquire others that are either smaller or have longer ranges as it cuts domestic flights and increases international ones.
The Atlanta-based carrier also is seeking release of $115 million in a blocked account that's being held as collateral as part of certain aircraft agreements.
A hearing on Delta's motion to approve the deal is scheduled for Dec. 20 in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York. It has asked that the financial terms of the deal be filed under seal.
Among other things, Delta wants permission to sell 38 Boeing 737-800 aircraft that it has ordered to Babcock & Brown Aviation Finance Ltd. and Aviation Capital Group Corp. Under an earlier agreement with Boeing that Delta is seeking to amend, the airline would have to begin receiving those aircraft in 2008.
Delta, which uses Boeing 737-800 aircraft primarily for domestic flights, said it no longer needs as many of those planes. That's because of its previously announced plans to reduce domestic flights and increase international flights.
Delta said it wants to acquire other Boeing aircraft, specifically 737-700s and certain other models. The Boeing 737-700 aircraft is smaller than the Boeing 737-800 aircraft and will allow Delta to operate more efficiently on certain routes, the airline said in its motion.
"The acquisition of the new Boeing model 737-700 aircraft for Delta's fleet is important for Delta's future operations and business plans because it will open new markets that Delta is not currently equipped to serve profitably," Delta said.
As part of that, Boeing and Delta have agreed to amend certain contracts to allow the substitution of Boeing 737-700 aircraft for Boeing 737-800 aircraft that Delta would otherwise be acquiring.
Delta also wants permission to acquire long-range Boeing aircraft that it will use for its international expansion instead of shorter-range aircraft it is required to buy.
As for the blocked account, Delta is required to pay certain interest as part of its agreements, and the money in the account is used as collateral. The current balance of the blocked account is roughly $115 million. Delta wants the court to allow the funds to be released so it can pay outstanding interest and keep the rest.

 

[General Lee]

Did I not tell anyone that we were ordering around 20-25 737-700s in the near future? I wonder if that would be considered "buttering Boeing's muffin?" They will be used for longer haul routes to Central America that will be more profitable than some of our domestic trunk routes. (a la Airtran doesn't go there)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Look at this again

Delta said it wants to acquire other Boeing aircraft, specifically 737-700s and certain other models. The Boeing 737-700 aircraft is smaller than the Boeing 737-800 aircraft and will allow Delta to operate more efficiently on certain routes, the airline said in its motion.
"The acquisition of the new Boeing model 737-700 aircraft for Delta's fleet is important for Delta's future operations and business plans because it will open new markets that Delta is not currently equipped to serve profitably," Delta said.
As part of that, Boeing and Delta have agreed to amend certain contracts to allow the substitution of Boeing 737-700 aircraft for Boeing 737-800 aircraft that Delta would otherwise be acquiring.
Delta also wants permission to acquire long-range Boeing aircraft that it will use for its international expansion instead of shorter-range aircraft it is required to buy.
As for the blocked account, Delta is required to pay certain interest as part of its agreements, and the money in the account is used as collateral. The current balance of the blocked account is roughly $115 million. Delta wants the court to allow the funds to be released so it can pay outstanding interest and keep the rest.


Sounds like Boeing and DL are good friends. Can you see a 787 order in those bold letters too? Maybe.......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[9rj9]

aaahhhhh

u have no life general, what nothing to do on you day off. I guess Delta needs the cash to buy more RJs.
try www.ihavenolife.com

 

[General Lee]

u have no life general, what nothing to do on you day off. I guess Delta needs the cash to buy more RJs.
try www.ihavenolife.com

I don't need that, I really enjoy my life. That is the difference between me and you probably. As far as buying more RJs, for who? We just sold 12 CR7s used by Comair to SkyWest. They buy their own RJs. And, if you read that article again, you would read that we are probably going to buy more INTL aircraft, like 787s. That will be fun.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tomct]

Well General, unfortunately, they won't be getting them until 2012! Would be good to get them sooner, but I don't see that happening...hope I am wrong!!

 

[General Lee]

Well General, unfortunately, they won't be getting them until 2012! Would be good to get them sooner, but I don't see that happening...hope I am wrong!!

The 737-700s would start coming in 2008. SW an AT have the line until then.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Well, don't be too premature-- LCC has quite a bit more Airbuses on order than Boeings...

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Did I not tell anyone that we were ordering around 20-25 737-700s in the near future? I wonder if that would be considered "buttering Boeing's muffin?" They will be used for longer haul routes to Central America that will be more profitable than some of our domestic trunk routes. (a la Airtran doesn't go there)


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

You make this too easy. Getting rid of 38 738's that are part of the long range fleet management at Delta for 20-25 737's. And add some bigger international planes. It's not bad news, but its not as good as it used to be.

More international is good news. Orders for international planes is very good. Reading between the lines the domestic operation is getting heavily restructured with more flexible aircraft like the 737 at mainline and CRG-90s/EMB-170s at your expanding number of regional providers.

But the Domestic operation at Delta mainline continues to shrink. The MD88's sorely need replacing and the loss of 38 738's doesn't give me a warm fuzzy that the MD88 flying will stay at Delta for very long. The 737's carry 30-35 fewer people than the 738's.(20% fewer pax per airplane AND 30% fewer airplanes). Don't know much about the MD88, I guess it is slightly smaller than the 738.

Hope you like international, 'cause that is what you are getting.

 

[General Lee]

General,

You make this too easy. Getting rid of 38 738's that are part of the long range fleet management at Delta for 20-25 737's. And add some bigger international planes. It's not bad news, but its not as good as it used to be.

More international is good news. Orders for international planes is very good. Reading between the lines the domestic operation is getting heavily restructured with more flexible aircraft like the 737 at mainline and CRG-90s/EMB-170s at your expanding number of regional providers.

But the Domestic operation at Delta mainline continues to shrink. The MD88's sorely need replacing and the loss of 38 738's doesn't give me a warm fuzzy that the MD88 flying will stay at Delta for very long. The 737's carry 30-35 fewer people than the 738's.(20% fewer pax per airplane AND 30% fewer airplanes). Don't know much about the MD88, I guess it is slightly smaller than the 738.

Hope you like international, 'cause that is what you are getting.

Do you know if we are going to lease those 738s from Babcock and Brown and the other lessor? We may do that indeed. Also we may add some of those new 739ERs. Those MD88s will eventually get replaced, probably with 737-700s too. We have hubs, and they need feed, lots of feed, to fill up those INTL flights.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

General,

You make this too easy. Getting rid of 38 738's that are part of the long range fleet management at Delta for 20-25 737's. And add some bigger international planes. It's not bad news, but its not as good as it used to be.

More international is good news. Orders for international planes is very good. Reading between the lines the domestic operation is getting heavily restructured with more flexible aircraft like the 737 at mainline and CRG-90s/EMB-170s at your expanding number of regional providers.

But the Domestic operation at Delta mainline continues to shrink. The MD88's sorely need replacing and the loss of 38 738's doesn't give me a warm fuzzy that the MD88 flying will stay at Delta for very long. The 737's carry 30-35 fewer people than the 738's.(20% fewer pax per airplane AND 30% fewer airplanes). Don't know much about the MD88, I guess it is slightly smaller than the 738.

Hope you like international, 'cause that is what you are getting.

Fly:
I think what you're going to see in the near future, not just at DL, is everything from 737 on up being flown by mainline, and smaller by DCI!
I'm not saying this will happen overnight, but probably in the next 5 yrs.
The "rj" is a term that really is overused. I've been on one of those emb 175's and 190's (B6). How anyone can call that an rj, is beyond me. They're nice, more comfy than the 88. I'd rather sit in the back of one of them for a trans con than a 737. At least you'll have either a window or aisle seat.

737

 

[michael707767]

Do you know if we are going to lease those 738s from Babcock and Brown and the other lessor? We may do that indeed.

You know I was thinking the same thing. Would not be surprised to see some of these end up in Delta's colors.

 

[waterski]

I hope you like the Usairways Callsign

 

[m80drvr]

Fly:
I think what you're going to see in the near future, not just at DL, is everything from 737 on up being flown by mainline, and smaller by DCI!
I'm not saying this will happen overnight, but probably in the next 5 yrs.
The "rj" is a term that really is overused. I've been on one of those emb 175's and 190's (B6). How anyone can call that an rj, is beyond me. They're nice, more comfy than the 88. I'd rather sit in the back of one of them for a trans con than a 737. At least you'll have either a window or aisle seat.

737

Well I'll say it again. Do you guys, Delta or Others really believe that your airlines will flood the skies with a huge number of shiny new planes? Airline management is historically short sighted BUT the industry is just turning around and the well run legacys are finally making money. Their good fortunes are not due to the airline fairy granting them higher pax demand. It is due to the fact that their are LESS airframes, thus less seats to sell in the air so you can charge more for the same ticket. I believe MGT is smart enough not to screw up and drastically increase the domestic ASM's.

We all should be very leary of large AC orders for the time being. I would assume most will be replacement AC. Buy 20 larger more fuel efficient AC park 30 smaller gas hogs = LESS pilots.

On a side note.

Dammn General give us a rest. I thought SWA/FO was the biggest TOOL on this board but you have taken the crown.

"Delta's great Blah Blah Blah LCC sucks Blah blah blah Delta invented the wheel and the airplane Blah blah blah Delta didn't change flight time rules it was Jetblue and the FAA, Blah blah blah"

Step away from the Delta coolaid, go outside and get some air. But whatever you do, do us all a favor and STFU.

 

[On Your Six]

Well I'll say it again. Do you guys, Delta or Others really believe that your airlines will flood the skies with a huge number of shiny new planes? Airline management is historically short sighted BUT the industry is just turning around and the well run legacys are finally making money. Their good fortunes are not due to the airline fairy granting them higher pax demand. It is due to the fact that their are LESS airframes, thus less seats to sell in the air so you can charge more for the same ticket. I believe MGT is smart enough not to screw up and drastically increase the domestic ASM's.

We all should be very leary of large AC orders for the time being. I would assume most will be replacement AC. Buy 20 larger more fuel efficient AC park 30 smaller gas hogs = LESS pilots.

On a side note.

Dammn General give us a rest. I thought SWA/FO was the biggest TOOL on this board but you have taken the crown.

"Delta's great Blah Blah Blah LCC sucks Blah blah blah Delta invented the wheel and the airplane Blah blah blah Delta didn't change flight time rules it was Jetblue and the FAA, Blah blah blah"

Step away from the Delta coolaid, go outside and get some air. But whatever you do, do us all a favor and STFU.

First, aircraft are financed on the basis of asset value and future income streams from the flights supported by that aircraft. If Delta can employ those aircraft immediately on lucrative routes then they can be financed. How was Air Canada able to finance a big order of 777s and 787s so soon after nearly being liquidated? Well, it is because the future income streams from those international routes could cover the debt/lease payments - get it? Just because someone is in Chap 11 doesn't mean they don't have lucrative routes that can support debt/lease payments related to that specific aircraft. Delta already has the infrastructure and routes it needs to make these aircraft profitable. Almost nobody on this board understands that point.

Secondly, I don't see you adding any value to these discussions - related to Delta or otherwise. The General is extreme in his opinions in many cases, but he is a loyal employee who evidently lives and breathes the airline business. Good for him - I wish we all enjoyed our jobs as much as he does. You don't know anything about him or his life from what you read so don't be so quick to judge. BTW, you can always ignore what he says or you can skip his posts entirely - nobody is forcing you to read what he says... Perhaps you should spend that same time writing something constructive or something that actually adds value to the conversation... Or just don't respond - you'll be doing us all a favor.

 

[Hobit]

Wasn't PanAm primarily an Intl carrier? Didn't this hurt it in the end?

 

[On Your Six]

Wasn't PanAm primarily an Intl carrier? Didn't this hurt it in the end?

Pan Am never had the feed Delta has now. Plus, there is less competition on the international routes - fewer LCCs to worry about. These routes are big money makers (including cargo). Over time, Delta will reduce domestic capacity (total number of seats) by downgrading some aircraft (from 800s or MD88s to 700s) but still retain the routes for the international feed. Conceptually, load factors should increase if demand remains the same or increases and yields should improve (yield management). Sounds like they are thinking about it correctly - we'll see.......

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

We all should be very leary of large AC orders for the time being. I would assume most will be replacement AC. Buy 20 larger more fuel efficient AC park 30 smaller gas hogs = LESS pilots.

It is expected that AC orders won't cover what is on the property at NWA and DAL. BKs are normally accompanied by a reduction in airplanes before, during and after.

But I would be leery too if furloughed and offered recall this year or first quarter '07.

These guys are running into some of the same issues they faced before BK. SWA, JetBlue, Frontier and Airtran. Add to that a soon to be strengthening second tier of LCC. Spirit, Virgin, Skybus, USA 3000. Internationally its ATA and Maxjet.

Depending on how things work out at USAir, the likes of Delta and NWA may wish they had merged with them in 3 years.

 

[General Lee]

It is expected that AC orders won't cover what is on the property at NWA and DAL. BKs are normally accompanied by a reduction in airplanes before, during and after.

But I would be leery too if furloughed and offered recall this year or first quarter '07.

These guys are running into some of the same issues they faced before BK. SWA, JetBlue, Frontier and Airtran. Add to that a soon to be strengthening second tier of LCC. Spirit, Virgin, Skybus, USA 3000. Internationally its ATA and Maxjet.

Depending on how things work out at USAir, the likes of Delta and NWA may wish they had merged with them in 3 years.

Nah, I think you have that wrong. Remember Moak stating that we have provisions in the contract, that the judge approved, that call for no furloughs or all large RJs will have seats removed etc? There are provisions that will protect the pilots, and the only thing that would stop them is another round of BK. I don't think anyone wants that, not even our management. This one is exciting enough for them. Unlikely.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[m80drvr]

First, aircraft are financed on the basis of asset value and future income streams from the flights supported by that aircraft. If Delta can employ those aircraft immediately on lucrative routes then they can be financed. How was Air Canada able to finance a big order of 777s and 787s so soon after nearly being liquidated? Well, it is because the future income streams from those international routes could cover the debt/lease payments - get it? Just because someone is in Chap 11 doesn't mean they don't have lucrative routes that can support debt/lease payments related to that specific aircraft. Delta already has the infrastructure and routes it needs to make these aircraft profitable. Almost nobody on this board understands that point.

Secondly, I don't see you adding any value to these discussions - related to Delta or otherwise. The General is extreme in his opinions in many cases, but he is a loyal employee who evidently lives and breathes the airline business. Good for him - I wish we all enjoyed our jobs as much as he does. You don't know anything about him or his life from what you read so don't be so quick to judge. BTW, you can always ignore what he says or you can skip his posts entirely - nobody is forcing you to read what he says... Perhaps you should spend that same time writing something constructive or something that actually adds value to the conversation... Or just don't respond - you'll be doing us all a favor.

If I added nothing to this thread then so be it. But your response has NOTHING to do with my post. I dont give a sh#t how Delta finances the planes my contention is that I don't believe that their will be a huge increase in capacity. Thats what got us all furloughed in the first place. Thats why the airlines have lost so much money. Too many seats too low fares. period. Yes 9/11 did help but the airlines were already starting to lose money.

Before you berate me for not adding anything to the thread why dont you READ MY POST.

Ps About the general, I'm just saying what most others are thinking.

Feel free to put me on your ignore list. It's m80drvr if your forgot.

Cheers

 

[General Lee]

If I added nothing to this thread then so be it. But your response has NOTHING to do with my post. I dont give a sh#t how Delta finances the planes my contention is that I don't believe that their will be a huge increase in capacity. Thats what got us all furloughed in the first place. Thats why the airlines have lost so much money. Too many seats too low fares. period. Yes 9/11 did help but the airlines were already starting to lose money.

Before you berate me for not adding anything to the thread why dont you READ MY POST.

Ps About the general, I'm just saying what most others are thinking.

Feel free to put me on your ignore list. It's m80drvr if your forgot.

Cheers

Most others are thinking? Whatever...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Nah, I think you have that wrong. Remember Moak stating that we have provisions in the contract, that the judge approved, that call for no furloughs or all large RJs will have seats removed etc?

Bye Bye--General Lee

I'm not forecasting any furloughes. But when TB Kane comes back he might stay at or near the bottom for a loooooong time.

That is in the current economic cycle. Who knows what the next will bring. Trucking never saw a peak and many anticipate a big slow down in the economy because of it. Others are still predicting robust airline revenue in '07. We'll see....

 

[m80drvr]

Nah, I think you have that wrong. Remember Moak stating that we have provisions in the contract, that the judge approved, that call for no furloughs or all large RJs will have seats removed etc? There are provisions that will protect the pilots, and the only thing that would stop them is another round of BK. I don't think anyone wants that, not even our management. This one is exciting enough for them. Unlikely.

Bye Bye--General Lee

So if things change you don't believe the judge can change his mind. BK is very liquid and changing. If it's in the best interest of the majority of the creditors the judge will allow all of you to be furoughed if need be. Pinning your hopes on a BK judge is risky and naive.

 

[General Lee]

So if things change you don't believe the judge can change his mind. BK is very liquid and changing. If it's in the best interest of the majority of the creditors the judge will allow all of you to be furoughed if need be. Pinning your hopes on a BK judge is risky and naive.

Has the judge blocked anything DL has wanted yet? Sure, he may, but so far so good.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Toecutter]

Its hard to compare the demise of Pan Am to today's market. I would say that a combination of of factors lead to the end, but I would say its inability to adapt to post deregulation, the end to the cold war, and the recession of the early '90s were what did it in. They really made an effort to increase domestic capacity by purchasing National Airlines in 1980. Only problem was that they paid three times what the airline was worth after a bidding war with Texas International and Eastern. They lost their monopoly in Berlin after the Wall came down and the Germans got Berlin back. Instead of changing its business plan, they chose simply to sell off assets, the Pam AM building in New York, pacific routes to United, New York shuttle/ Europe A310s to Delta. The thing about back then, is that something like this never happened to an airline before. I think Delta really looks at those mistakes and and considers that in todays business model.

 

[av8n]

Delta reaches agreement with Boeing

Delta Air Lines announced today that it has reached agreement with The Boeing Company to convert five firm orders for Boeing 777-200ER aircraft to longer-range Boeing 777-200LR aircraft (two conversions were previously announced), to order 10 Boeing 737-700 aircraft, and to assume its existing aircraft purchase agreements with Boeing. Delta has agreed to sell, immediately upon delivery, 38 future deliveries of Boeing 737-800 aircraft - 15 to Aviation Capital Group and 23 to Babcock & Brown Aviation Finance Limited. These actions support Delta's planned international expansion, give it additional flexibility to fly new routes, and complete an important element of its restructuring. These transactions are subject to Bankruptcy Court approval.


All five of the new 777 aircraft will be delivered with fully horizontal personal sleeper suites in BusinessElite(r) featuring on-demand in-flight entertainment systems in every suite. Customers flying in Economy class also will enjoy more room and nine-inch personal entertainment screens in every seat back, complementing Delta's efforts to retrofit its fleet of 777s and more than 100 737-800 and 767-300 aircraft with on-demand, in-seat entertainment at every customer's seat by the end of 2008.

These transactions with Boeing will introduce the first 737-700 aircraft to Delta's fleet, replacing 10 future options for Boeing 737-800s with the 737-700. ``The 737-700 is a better fit for the current needs of our network, providing flexibility in our fleet to fly longer, thinner domestic routes while at the same time supporting our international expansion to Latin America and the Caribbean,'' Fauscett said.
The 737-700 will operate with a common cockpit type to the 71 737-800s in Delta's fleet, but will be configured with 124 seats vs. the 150-seat 737-800s to serve smaller and developing markets. The 737-700 also will be delivered to Delta with winglets to deliver additional fuel savings and efficiencies.