Displacement Irony

[aircombat]

not this again? really?...look, heres the deal. I (and I'm sure others) was picking up open time before the first furlough (even before it was being talked about), I will continue to pick up open time as I see fit. The only thing NOT picking up open time is going to do is have me get JM'd at the end of some trip I bid for very specific reasons. If I decide to pick something up to keep from being JM'd or INT or just to make some additional $$ You'll just have to deal with it. Or not, its your choice. BUT, not picking up open time WILL NOT KEEP OR BRING BACK ANYONE! PERIOD! END OF STORY!

It really sucks and I hope they are brought back quickly (if they choose to come back).

Wow I couldn't have altered this post better if I tried. The BOLD "I" says it all. Don't worry you aren't alone with that selfish attitude. However I would like to know why you think that you getting paid time and a half getting JM'd would not bring people back. Plus you would make the extra cash that you won't if you pick the trip up so it's a win win. Plus there has been instances were there were no people available to JM and in that case flights would have to be canceled.

 

[Speedtape]

The senior guys will take their union buddies aside and say "Fock those junior guys, let them get furloughed! I can't go below 75 hours because I need to pay for another suround sound system in my house!"

The Company has less block hours to fly for Delta--much less. The economy is in the tank. They don't need 1700+ pilots.

Sorry, that's the reality. I am fairly Senior, and I don't know anyone who has said anything that resembles your quote. Maybe the Company bean counters said what you said. No one benefits in a furlough. Everyone moves backwards and the schedules get worse. Hope it is shortlived, for all of us.

 

[JustaNumber]

Wow I couldn't have altered this post better if I tried. The BOLD "I" says it all. Don't worry you aren't alone with that selfish attitude. However I would like to know why you think that you getting paid time and a half getting JM'd would not bring people back. Plus you would make the extra cash that you won't if you pick the trip up so it's a win win. Plus there has been instances were there were no people available to JM and in that case flights would have to be canceled.

The problem is that there is extra flying to be done this month and next, but that's it. If not a single open time trip was picked up, furloughees will not be brought back for such a close time frame. Come September 1, there will be less flying, although at that time we will be properly staffed. Expect to see average line values in the low '80's. Could we force them to require more pilots than is traditionally needed for such flying? Maybe, although ASA would then have a hard time being profitable. But the real problem comes next spring, when we very well may lose 20 airframes, at which time we would be massively overstaffed, even with the current number of pilots. So it just doesn't make sound business sense to have more pilots on the payroll. I know it sucks, but it is a business.

As the last guy said, let's hope the economy turns around first, before we sabotage our own company's operation and therefore our company's viability.

 

[ohplease!]

Wow I couldn't have altered this post better if I tried. The BOLD "I" says it all. Don't worry you aren't alone with that selfish attitude. However I would like to know why you think that you getting paid time and a half getting JM'd would not bring people back. Plus you would make the extra cash that you won't if you pick the trip up so it's a win win. Plus there has been instances were there were no people available to JM and in that case flights would have to be canceled.

nope, I'm not alone. And I'm not worried about what you think. As has been said by many already, open time and JM'ing isn't going to bring back anyone and rather than cancel flights ASA is going to bring in Skywest/airscuttle/or someone else on a pay-per-play basis to get CF. don't think so? better think again. just heard one of our flights to LIT get cancelled and the 700 crew DH'd on Scuttle (flt# was 99##) to little rock. How many times has Skywest "filled in" for us this year already?

Expect more

 

[FishandFly]

not this again? really?...look, heres the deal. I (and I'm sure others) was picking up open time before the first furlough (even before it was being talked about), I will continue to pick up open time as I see fit. The only thing NOT picking up open time is going to do is have me get JM'd at the end of some trip I bid for very specific reasons. If I decide to pick something up to keep from being JM'd or INT or just to make some additional $$ You'll just have to deal with it. Or not, its your choice. BUT, not picking up open time WILL NOT KEEP OR BRING BACK ANYONE! PERIOD! END OF STORY!

It really sucks and I hope they are brought back quickly (if they choose to come back).

Yes it will. You and everyone else who does it selfishly chooses to benefit financially from another pilot's loss, while aiding the company in continuing on without the need for said displaced/furloughed pilot.

 

[ohplease!]

Yes it will. You and everyone else who does it selfishly chooses to benefit financially from another pilot's loss, while aiding the company in continuing on without the need for said displaced/furloughed pilot.

ok then PollyAnna.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

not this again? really?...look, heres the deal. I (and I'm sure others) was picking up open time before the first furlough (even before it was being talked about), I will continue to pick up open time as I see fit. The only thing NOT picking up open time is going to do is have me get JM'd at the end of some trip I bid for very specific reasons. If I decide to pick something up to keep from being JM'd or INT or just to make some additional $$ You'll just have to deal with it. Or not, its your choice. BUT, not picking up open time WILL NOT KEEP OR BRING BACK ANYONE! PERIOD! END OF STORY!

It really sucks and I hope they are brought back quickly (if they choose to come back).

Hmph....good story...you have fun with that...

 

[GINCHBLASTER]

I recently flew with a very senior captain who commutes out of PHX. He was complaining that the reduced flights makes it harder for him to pick up open time.
We had a discussion about picking up open time while guys are fuloughed and he just didn't get it. He made some jabs at me one time saying "well, you FO's these days are too over qualified for the regionals anyway. Maybe it's best"
In the end, I said "I'm surprised they didn't teach you this at GIA. Seeing how much you paid for that job there, you'd think they would atleast teach you some code of ethics there...but then again, you paid $30k a year to fly a Beech".
He said "Well, after this leg we're done flying together"...I held up my schedule and said "You're right, I'm off for the next 3 days!"
That was the only time I have been smart with a captain. dikc deserved it though.

Wow it doesn't get any more fake than this.

 

[FishandFly]

ok then PollyAnna.

You have described yourself, not those of us who will not be picking up open time.

YOU:
I will pick up as much open time as I want, and I hope that the company brings back the furloughed ASAP.

The ignorance in your logic is unbelievable.

Here is some parallelism for clarity's sake.

Roofing company employs a 7 man team to do roofs.
Roofing company decides to lay off 1 of the 7 men to save money.
Remaining 6 roofers pick up slack, roofing company never brings back roofer.
Remaining 6 roofers do not pick up slack, roofing company brings back roofer.

Even the roofers understand that. Why don't you guys?

 

[Data]

You have described yourself, not those of us who will not be picking up open time.

YOU:
I will pick up as much open time as I want, and I hope that the company brings back the furloughed ASAP.

The ignorance in your logic is unbelievable.

Here is some parallelism for clarity's sake.

Roofing company employs a 7 man team to do roofs.
Roofing company decides to lay off 1 of the 7 men to save money.
Remaining 6 roofers pick up slack, roofing company never brings back roofer.
Remaining 6 roofers do not pick up slack, roofing company brings back roofer.

Even the roofers understand that. Why don't you guys?

That's not really a valid analogy. A staffing formula at an airline factors in things like open time pickups, reserve staffing, sick time, vacation time etc. X number of flight hours equals x number of pilots. Sure, there's room in each factor to account for decreases or increases but, basically, the number of hours available to has gone down significantly. Trying to affect one factor will not necessarily bring about the change you want.

What happens in your scenario when the guy that owns the company has fewer roofs to do? Is it ok to layoff 2 guys when the number of roofs can only support 4? Where do you draw the line between normal staffing and 'greed' staffing?

 

[DrewBlows]

Sad Irony:

My original Captain called in sick, and the last half of the trip was given to a junior ready-reserve guy. He was supposed to go off of reserve at 10:00 pm and was called at 9:59. He was in the parking lot getting into his car, when the poor b*****d got stuck with a three day! This assignment came on the day that he was notified that he was being displaced back to the right seat effective 1 Sep.

The irony part is that he's one of the best guys I've flown with in quite a while.

Let's hope this all turns around sooner rather than later.

I was once junior manned on the first day I was supposed to be furloughed due to "lack of crews". If that's not ironic I don't know what is.

 

[FishandFly]

That's not really a valid analogy. A staffing formula at an airline factors in things like open time pickups, reserve staffing, sick time, vacation time etc. X number of flight hours equals x number of pilots. Sure, there's room in each factor to account for decreases or increases but, basically, the number of hours available to has gone down significantly. Trying to affect one factor will not necessarily bring about the change you want.

What happens in your scenario when the guy that owns the company has fewer roofs to do? Is it ok to layoff 2 guys when the number of roofs can only support 4? Where do you draw the line between normal staffing and 'greed' staffing?

I think it is valid. Although there are other factors involved you simply cannot suggest that picking up open time is helpful in bringing back the pilots.

When you pick up open time you adjust the staffing formula in the direction of not needing to bring the captain or fo back. Plain and simple.

The guy that owns the company makes a decision based upon what he thinks will save or make him the most money. His decision is not usually based upon the good of the worker. It is his right to do as he pleases with his company, but that is not the point.

I believe greed takes center issue when the remaining roofers know that their company's owner has layed off their fellow roofers to pad profit margins, and the remaining roofers pick up the slack so that the owner sees no benefit to bringing back the other roofers.

Either way, I know full well that there are plenty of roofers out there who will be happy to pick up any slack that exists so it's a futile argument on my end.

 

[ohplease!]

I think it is valid. Although there are other factors involved you simply cannot suggest that picking up open time is helpful in bringing back the pilots.

When you pick up open time you adjust the staffing formula in the direction of not needing to bring the captain or fo back. Plain and simple.

The guy that owns the company makes a decision based upon what he thinks will save or make him the most money. His decision is not usually based upon the good of the worker. It is his right to do as he pleases with his company, but that is not the point.

I believe greed takes center issue when the remaining roofers know that their company's owner has layed off their fellow roofers to pad profit margins, and the remaining roofers pick up the slack so that the owner sees no benefit to bringing back the other roofers.

Either way, I know full well that there are plenty of roofers out there who will be happy to pick up any slack that exists so it's a futile argument on my end.

nobody has said picking up open time is helpful to a furloughed pilot. What we are saying is, not picking up isn't going to bring anyone back any sooner.

The only thing NOT picking up is going to do is get those of us who are NOT reserve pilots JM'd OR worse yet, have an ASA flight "cancelled" only to be flown by another DCI carrier and paid by ASA.

 

[WWEfan]

I'm with Ohplease. Gotta put my family first before I worry about some furloughed guy who probably just got a job making more money anyway.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why not donate all the earned opentime money (at CA rate) to help furloughed F/O's pay their Cobra benefits premiums?