Displacement and Seniority?

[RJP]

Just curious how other airlines handle this situation. Airline X is closing a base and removing all aircraft from flying. The crews of said aircraft are all quite senior in their seats. The company says that during the displacement, all these crews will be moved directly into the same seat on the other (smaller) aircraft. While the majority of FOs can hold a CA position on this aircraft, the company has told the union that there will be no captains losing their seats and that all FOs will stay FOs regardless of seniority in order to save $$ on training costs. Everyone is required to bid but there is no point, seeing as how the seat positions are already predetermined.

Needless to say, this has not gone over too well. Now that seniority does not matter at company X what is the point of staying at company X?

Has anyone ever faced a similar situation? Does any of this sound right?

Mahalos.

 

[atrdriver]

Normally in a case of senior FO's they can hold Captain as soon as there are vacancies. It is not a money saving matter, it is simply that the Captains that are junior to you have already upgraded, and you chose not to when you could because you wanted to live in another base. Wouldn't really be fair to those that have already upgraded would it? If you are senior enough to hold Captain in your new base you can do so as soon as a vacancy occurs.

 

[RJP]

Point well taken. However, the company has already had one instance where they did exactly the opposite. When a delivery of aircraft didn't take place a few months back, they opened the entire seniority list up for bid. Now, they're closing an entire base and they aren't going to allow any changes. The CEO told the pilot group that they want to save money on training costs. It's pretty obvious that this is a money saving issue for them.

 

[OttoPilot]

Point well taken. However, the company has already had one instance where they did exactly the opposite. When a delivery of aircraft didn't take place a few months back, they opened the entire seniority list up for bid. Now, they're closing an entire base and they aren't going to allow any changes. The CEO told the pilot group that they want to save money on training costs. It's pretty obvious that this is a money saving issue for them.

At company XJ, right now - Realignment Award 06-07, there is one ARJ FO upgrading to SF CA.

Unless they impose they have no choice but to displace per the contract. In other words, if you can hold SF Captain you will be awarded it.

Of course I'm talking about XJ and you are talking about X.

 

[DoinTime]

This issue is entirely dependent on what the language in your working agreement (if you are a Union shop) says. At PCL a displaced pilot can excercise their seniority and choose any position that their seniority will hold. A junior pilot that is bumped out of that position then can excercise their seniority and pick what position they can hold.

Wouldn't really be fair to those that have already upgraded would it? If you are senior enough to hold Captain in your new base you can do so as soon as a vacancy occurs.

Seniority has nothing to do with fairness. Certainly it isn't fair that senior pilots get 18-20 days off a month and nice trips while junior pilots get 10, or less, and crappy trips.

 

[Caveman]

CMR went through this last year. It wasn't a base closure but approximately 40 CVG Captains were displaced back to the right seat (me included). We got to bid and hold any seat in the company our seniority would allow. Some guys were able to bid Captain at JFK and get it. The guys they displaced got to bid for whatever seat they could hold and so on. It was one big giant musical chairs and involved two airplanes and all four bases. What a clusterfukc. I'm convinced that the training costs more than offset whatever they saved in payroll costs by having 40 less Captains. It's only been 8 months since the first guy was actually displaced and all of them that are still at Comair are already back in their Captains slots. A total waste of time and money, not to mention the stress and inconvenience they put the crews and their families through. "This Fast Freddie Buttrell Moment is brought to you by our sponsors at Delta Management University. We produce idiots the old fashioned way: airline management inbreeding."

 

[DoinTime]

Good displacement language is intended to put a damper on the fleeting whims of a penny pinching management team. Truly, if there is significant downsizing going on the benefits of a displacement are clear but don't think for a second that if management was able to displace pilots at no cost to them seasonal/holiday displacements and upgrades would be commonplace. This is especially critical when a company operates a single type of aircraft and training expenses to transition to right seat and back again consist only of a PC.

 

[bailout]

As far as ASA is concerned, they were told they would have seats available for them in ATL on the SAME aircraft, not going to the 50. Will some F/Os bid over to CPT? Maybe.. if they do, there WILL be displacements. Just ask any junior CPT who came to ATL from DFW when it closed.

 

[RJP]

Of course I'm talking about XJ and you are talking about X.

Sorry, I was trying to be sneaky. I'm not talking about XJ. I'm talking about WP.

Thing is that we went throught the musical chairs a few months back when the 2nd Q400 was turned down. Now the only one at the company is going away and they're only opening enough CA and FO spots as it will take to push all the 400 crews into the same seats in the 100. Since they've already played musical chairs previously, what reason did they offer as to why they won't do it again? To save money on training costs, of course.

This is not really sitting well with the 400 crews as the nicest aircraft this company has ever seen is going away, they're all taking a major pay-cut after making better-than-Wal-Mart wages for a few months and now the FOs are involuntarily locked in the right seat even though they can hold CA.

It's pretty much a mess and the morale is sinking to all-time lows. Still no F-bomb though. Guess they're hoping a bunch of folks will quit before they have to send them packing.

 

[doug_or]

Forgive my ignoarnce, but is WP a union shop?

 

[fly4surf]

Yes, It's ALPA.
RJP, At least bid Capt. so when the grievance settles in your favor in a few months/years you get a fat check.
If you can stay outta Bali that long, and suck up your morale on your 10 day line pimp.
At least the CP is resolving, helping my moral instantly.
aaaaaawwwwwwoooooooo

 

[RJP]

Oh, I suppose that's what I'll do. You know, I see your truck more now than i did when you were here. Saw it again this morning on my coffee walk.
Are ya glad you left when you did? Great timing.
Aloha.

 

[fly4surf]

oh man. no kidding!
know anyone who wants to buy the truck? it will be available at the end of the month for 2000$
waved at ya last weekend while i was on desert leave/hummidity re-saturation. even a few waves over on base. cya