Dispatcher training

[Tatoosh65]

Hello,
Wondering if any Dispatchers out there could direct me to a good training program. I am a furloughed airline pilot and am considering a little bit of a new direction. I figure as a dispatcher at least my airline expeirence is worth something. I am considering an accelerated course of some type and was wondering if that is a good or bad idea.? I am currently in the Seattle area but am willing to travel to a good school. New to this idea and any insight or advice on the process is very appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Tatoosh

 

[Squirrel29]

Honestly find something else to do. I have 10 years experience as dispatcher and been unemployed for 4 months with no luck in finding a Dispatching job. Right now there is some hiring but for every job there is about 200 resumes are sent in.

But with that said take a accelerated class. Im assuming you have your ATP if that is the case you can get your license in 2-4 months iirc.

 

[clr4theapch]

Not to put too much water on your thoughts.. but it is not a really good idea, unless you just want to add a license in the wallet..

As Squirrel29 stated, and I have to concur from recent experience, there is a HUGH contingent of very experienced dispatchers out of work right now.. I have a large list of names and contacts throughout the industry that I remain in contact with, the usual employment web sites, free and pay for.. And it all but dead..

As an example, SkyWest had 4 dispatch openings last month.. Everyone went crazy.. they got 200 "well qualified" applicants.. and ended up hiring from within.. (Which is ok by the way?) Republic had opening between 4 and 7 dispatchers this month for the F9 division, I'm told from one that is there, that over 300 apps came in, over 30 were flown in for interviews and only 4 were hired from the street, the rest came from within... Colgan/ Pinnacle.. They hired a few with 100's of applications, then some jumped from one to another internally..

In the end less than 25 "off the street new hires" for what was the best hiring we have seen in years...
So you must ask yourself these questions. Can you compete with those odds.. Can you wait for that first job? Are you willing to spend the money for school just to run into this traffic jam? Are you ok with making $14 and hour of you are lucky for the first few years..? Are you ok with being the junior man that get jerked around different shifts at the whim of the seniority list? Are you ok with being the red-headed step child when it come to jump-seating if you have to commute??

If you can answer yes to all of that.. Then go for it.. Many good accelerated courses out there..

I would highly recommend that you look in another part of the field if you must stay in aviation.. I say this to any of the kids that have been sold a bill of goods by the schools... they always make it sound like there are 100's of openings just waiting to be filled, making $100,000 and year.. it's total BS sale pitch stuff..

Good luck in this quest..

 

[need2fly]

Experienced DX school

Higher Power Aviation (DFW) runs a DX school and has an experienced program. With your airline experience you would be able to take the 80 hour course. You would have your ticket about 2 weeks after starting.

800-JETCREW
817-445-7000

N2F

 

[bgaviator]

I went to AGS (Airline Ground Schools) in Florence, KY (close to CVG). If you already have a pilots license you can take their accelerated course that's only 1 week long. The classes are taught in a hotel conference room, so you can book a room in the hotel where the classes are being held.

 

[J.Otto]

Whats the avg starting salary for a dispatcher?

..and avg income after 5 yrs or so with the same company?

 

[bgaviator]

I would say between 29-32K to start with most regionals. If you were to get on with NetJets or ExecJet Management, then mid to upper 30s to start. From my research most majors will start in the low to mid 40k range.....salaray at major airlines seem to progress much higher each year than what a regional salary will.

 

[clr4theapch]

JMHO

You’re not going to be with Major in 5 years... it's a rarity... 5th year pay at a regional may get you in the $35 to 38 range with some pushing 40K..

The majors want lots of experience and can and will get it from the high number of applications they get when they do hire, usually 8 to 10 years of solid international and domestic work before they even look at you..

I would suspect that there will be a fairly large number of “major’s" retirements in the next 5 to 10 years, this will make more room in the regional and LCC sectors as those with the experience make the jump, however many will stay put as they have the best bidding schedules, their pay is now at a good level and many won't want to start over in senority and uproot a family..

Remember about 8 years ago there were about 2500 "active" dispatchers, I understand that that number today is down to about 1600.. this is ALL U.S. based part 121 airlines... this makes us a very small group indeed.. by the way, that also means that there are maybe a 1000 experienced dispatchers out there plus all the new students the schools crank out every year with no experience..

Personally, I think its a flooded field, based on the low demand...

But what is a Major anymore.. The old definition based on financial strength does not really apply, let’s just say it the companies that pay the highest wages... however with bigger companies comes bigger politics and more BS.. It’s all relative..

Persistence, keeping up with your networking, and gaining experience will put one in the best position to grab one of these jobs when they come open.. but it's the right place, right time, right experience and who you know...

 

[WarnerNo13]

You guys keep talking about inexperience. If this guy has 6000 hours of flight time he can easily breeze thru an accelerated course, and have more weight on his application due to not being green like most DX school graduates. It's a tough market out there right now, but I say if you need a job and don't mind earning another ticket, go for it and give it your best shot. A lot of DXers out of work sometimes just don't fit the cultural part of an airline, it doesn't have as much to do with how well they can do the job.

 

[Justlurking]

I hear ya, and I think we all agree he can get the license quickly and without too much expense. As for the experience, can go both ways. Some are leery of hiring super experienced pilots and investing in their training only to have them bolt if hiring picks up in that area. Many pilots HATE dispatching - they'd rather be flying. Yes, the market is very saturated, yet lots of new licensees are getting jobs. It is a combination of culture, hiring chemistry, and if they think one will be worth the investment.

 

[DX Jake]

You guys keep talking about inexperience. If this guy has 6000 hours of flight time he can easily breeze thru an accelerated course, and have more weight on his application due to not being green like most DX school graduates. It's a tough market out there right now, but I say if you need a job and don't mind earning another ticket, go for it and give it your best shot. A lot of DXers out of work sometimes just don't fit the cultural part of an airline, it doesn't have as much to do with how well they can do the job.

Totally agree. As a matter of fact, "clr4theapproach"..... considering the context of your post, it looks like someone else posted your signature.

 

[Justlurking]

Sigh....not what happened. I inadvertently posted clr's name in my post. Being a monitor, he reposted mine with the edit so I wouldn't get dinged for my mistake. Nothing to see here.

We just happen to agree, I THINK, that neither experience nor inexperience is a guarantor of whether or not one will get the open positions out there.

 

[clr4theapch]

Sorry, I should have made that clear on his repost.. I could have had him just repost it himself.. but I thought I would just save him the aggravation.. I was there and it was easy for me to do as a Mod.. I only changed the name to the user name.. the rest is Justlurking's original words..

 

[clr4theapch]

As to the chemistry issue.. I guess there is something to be said there.. however, I can not think of a worse chemistry than for a pilot, (like the originator of this post) to been noted for just dropping in to get a quickie-drive-thru dispatch license for a few months till a flying job comes back open...

It just seems to cheapen the position we all hold with respect... If someone needs a part time job to fill some time and make a few buck.. go drive a cab or something...

The time frame outlined in this threads premise, shows how little a 6000 hour pilot knows about what we do and how things really work in an SOC.. If you want to get a dispatch ticket to fall back on because you might not be able to fly for some reason.. then great, your intention is to be a dispatcher.. and nothing else..

By the way, I lost my flight medical and this is how I came to learn about dispatching.. and became one.. I am NOT attacking anyone here, just saying how this looks to me.. Good luck if you decide to get the ticket..

 

[bgaviator]

Well, I went to school to fly, but was unfortunate to graduate the following year post 9/11. It was almost 3 years before I was even able to get a flight instructing job. But then I discovered that instructing wasn't my thing.....I'll admit, I think I'm a good pilot, but not everyone is cut out to be a good teacher. I had a pilot come in to the FBO I was working at and was telling me about dispatching....he said it was "the best kept secret" in the aviation business. Get your license pretty quickly, make damn good money, and be home every night. So I checked it out, and went to AGS's 1 week accelerated program. It just so happens that Flight Options was interviewing new graduates for their newly created dispatch (flight planning) department. So for me, it turned out great. I went from making $9/hr doing line service, to making $30K/year for the second largest fractional company overnight. Now I'm working 121, and after seeing what pilots go through at the regional level, I am pretty convinced that is not the lifestyle I want to live anyways.
I am one however who does hope to still make it to the majors. I like my current job, and I think the company I work for is pretty good.....but I'll never be making the kind of money I want, or for that matter feel I deserve, to make if I stay here. It just won't happen. I'm a little dissapointed that there hasn't been more movement at the national/major airline level.....but with the economy I can understand. I do hope that there are a lot more openings in the near future though. It would be nice to be on with a major by the time I hit my mid 30s.

 

[alpine1989]

Some are leery of hiring super experienced pilots and investing in their training only to have them bolt if hiring picks up in that area.

Bingo

 

[Tatoosh65]

Thanks to all that have added their insights here. Its been very helpful.
Sounds like a little bit of mixed bag. Long road, not enough cash, sounds familiar to me. The being home every night part sounds good to me. I appreciate hearing what the true expectations should be.
"Clr4approach" Thanks for your thoughts, but you assume, taker easy now..no need to get all wound up over nothing...

 

[Tatoosh65]

Thanks 4Aprch.

 

[N271FE]

I went to AGS in CVG and took the Accelerated course (Distance Learning Course). If you've been flying in the 121 world, you're light years ahead of tons of other folks for experience. That's a no brainer.
.
http://www.agschools.com/distance_learning_course.htm
.
Ps- Tatoosh; great name for your geographic area!

 

[OneBadLT123]

From my short experience, I have learned things do not come easy. But one thing I did learn is if you are willing to make the sacrifices, and keep it positive, good things will happen to you. I myself got my ticket just over a year ago, worked at a regional for just under a year and got picked up by a "major" so to say. I went from starting out at 12.xx bucks and hour, to my 12 month raise of just over 13.xx and hour to now making a substantial amount more Dx’ing mainline aircraft.

Was it luck? My interview? did they see something in me? Were they desperate? I don’t know. All I know is I tried my hardest to make the best out of my career, and take great pride in what I do. So far it’s paying off. What the future brings I don’t know. But that’s in industry we work in.

I say if you feel you can get your ticket in an accelerated program, I say go for it. But I wouldn’t expect to get picked up by a major after getting your ticket even with your experience. But hey, weirder things have happened, so I wouldn’t say it is impossible. Just realistically expect about a $12-$16/hr starting wage. Which I guess isn’t bad, but it really depends on other factors as well. (shift differential, raise frequency/percentage, union/nonunion…etc)

I know the original topic was asking about training, so I know I am a litte off topic. But I figured I would add my .02 as well. Whatever thats worth really. I think you would breeze through DX training. There are some differences, but for the most part everything can be picked up fairly well. But hey, now pilots can learn how to derive alternate minimums though (Kidding)

 

[clr4theapch]

Good post BadLT..

You are on of those that for what ever reason made it to the majors in record time.. congratulations... the top .5%..

Your advise however futher cements my comments that it will take some real time building along with the right time and right place and persons to make the jump to the big iron.. added to the good attitude and hard work.

I think we all agree to go for it, just have your eyes wide open to the real world of dispatch..

 

[SKC]

BY justlurkin:

SWA? Only time they have ever hired externally was during the 2007 DX shortage -

Not that it really matters in the long run, but a slight correction...2007 was the first time in 17 years for external hires. We've since hired two more classes that the majority of those hired were externals.

We have a couple of assistants that have yet to upgrade and will need to add another desk or two before that happens (thus another new hire class), I'm guessing.

 

[onewithwings]

That also includes taking jobs in crew scheduling or other airlrine openings with the intent to move to dispatch later.. Some companies like Airtran have a problem with that approach.. speaking from experience...

We have furloughed pilots that took jobs in crew scheduling until they get "called up".....sometime in the future. It's been several years and with the continued furloughs it will be many more! This June, we will see another round of furloughs in dispatch.

Begining pay here is about 25K. (When I started here it was 20K)

 

[Pull To Guns]

What a depressing thread (sigh). It made me think that if I was ever to go back to where I was, I would start with the same pay as someone with a fresh cert and be at the bottom of the seniority list. Not an appealing situation. We are all trapped in a way. I love "the biz" and have devoted the last 11 years of my life to it, but it is cruel to it's children.

Things change rapidly though. 2007 did see a DX shortage and the company I worked for then had to pay station ops people to go to school to fill the empty seats. Some were good but others could not read a TAF even after their free schooling. During this period of time I saw several co-workers hired by majors and LCCs and I was hired by a major international.

The situation is tough right now with hundreds of apps/position but I think the pendulum is starting to swing back. I personally know several people who have been hired lately at good places.

Because DXers are such a small community, the ups and downs of the supply and demand curve are very steep. It doesn't take much for the balance to be upset. I see good times ahead again in a couple of years.

As for some comments on how employers would rather hire no or low experienced applicants over experienced ones because of a fear the veterans will leave at the first opportunity, I have to throw the BS flag on that one.

Think about it! We are a dime-a-dozen right now and if you, as a decision maker, you had a hundred resumes in front of you, which one would you pick?

I rest my case!

 

[Squirrel29]

I think it depends on which company is hiring. If it is a regional I see them more leaning toward a new dispatcher. If it is a major or supplemental carrier they will go for experience. Last place I worked they hired both but it depended on the experience in the office. If we had alot of experienced dispatchers they would pick up a new dispatcher. But for the the most part hired experienced dispatchers. I know right now Im frustrated with the job search as it has slowed down in the past month.

What is hurting me is when I have to put my salary down. I wouldn't mind working for a regional for atleast 2 years. But I think once they seen what I made they think I wont start at the bottom again. Have no clue but it would be nice to just interview with them. Im not stuck where I have to make certain amount to live I can start over again. Although I really dont want to I dont have a choice as that is part of the industry.

 

[clr4theapch]

It is strange industry we are in.. I have been with a large aerospace firm in another life and experience always got paid.. I really dont understand how this situation is so stuck in this thinking.. experience should always be recognized.. I have started over 3 times.. it can be challenging, ya better have a well paid spouse to get the family through it.. or don't have a family...

As to the other points made by Pull to Guns.. I agree on most of your post.. however, I have had the unfortunate experience of being told by a regional that they are looking for green dispatchers to train them in their ways of operation so no bad habits have to be dealt with.. it's no biggie an employer has the right to hire whom they want.. but it does happen once in a while..

 

[Pull To Guns]

It is strange industry we are in.. I have been with a large aerospace firm in another life and experience always got paid.. I really dont understand how this situation is so stuck in this thinking.. experience should always be recognized.. I have started over 3 times.. it can be challenging, ya better have a well paid spouse to get the family through it.. or don't have a family...

As to the other points made by Pull to Guns.. I agree on most of your post.. however, I have had the unfortunate experience of being told by a regional that they are looking for green dispatchers to train them in their ways of operation so no bad habits have to be dealt with.. it's no biggie an employer has the right to hire whom they want.. but it does happen once in a while..

It sounds like that regional was just blowing smoke up your keister. I'll bet there are more green dispatchers that leave within the first year than experienced ones. The responsibility, schedule, pay and other tough aspects of the job can and do overwhelm those that are unfamiliar and new to the biz.

The regional that told you that forgot that us seasoned guys also have some good habits.

As a decision maker, I would rather choose an applicant that has been there and has a feel for the biz. Especially for the same cost (salary) as a newby. That is another subject that just ain't right!!!