Disclosures of Unsatisfactory Events in the Past

[UndauntedFlyer]

A young acquaintance of mine has told me that his training background was a large topic of discussion during his recent interview at a Regional Airline. He says he was asked the following question and then asked to sign a document to verify his response.

"Have you ever failed or had an unsatisfactory evaluation on any written test, phase check, simulator check, certification check or any other aviation related event? If the answer is yes, list all such events and explain the circumstances."

Can anyone please confirm that this is something that is typical at all Regionals and Legacy carriers too?

 

[GogglesPisano]

A young acquaintance of mine has told me that his training background was a large topic of discussion during his recent interview at a Regional Airline. He says he was asked the following question and then asked to sign a document to verify his response.

"Have you ever failed or had an unsatisfactory evaluation on any written test, phase check, simulator check, certification check or any other aviation related event? If the answer is yes, list all such events and explain the circumstances."

Can anyone please confirm that this is something that is typical at all Regionals and Legacy carriers too?

It's been on every airline app I've ever filled out.

And it's a subject of even greater scrutiny after the Colgan crash.

The signature seems to be redundant, since one has already signed the app with the information already listed. It seems lawyers now want an extra signature specific to this response.

 

[HA25]

A young acquaintance of mine has told me that his training background was a large topic of discussion during his recent interview at a Regional Airline. He says he was asked the following question and then asked to sign a document to verify his response.

"Have you ever failed or had an unsatisfactory evaluation on any written test, phase check, simulator check, certification check or any other aviation related event? If the answer is yes, list all such events and explain the circumstances."

Can anyone please confirm that this is something that is typical at all Regionals and Legacy carriers too?

since 1996 when I first filled one out, it's been on everyone I've filled out. Now more than ever, after the Colgan crash, they're paying close attention to it too (about damn time)..

 

[Data]

A young acquaintance of mine has told me that his training background was a large topic of discussion during his recent interview at a Regional Airline. He says he was asked the following question and then asked to sign a document to verify his response.

"Have you ever failed or had an unsatisfactory evaluation on any written test, phase check, simulator check, certification check or any other aviation related event? If the answer is yes, list all such events and explain the circumstances."

Can anyone please confirm that this is something that is typical at all Regionals and Legacy carriers too?

Not to be a jerk, but how many ya got?

 

[HA25]

Not to be a jerk, but how many ya got?

Ouch!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Not to be a jerk, but how many ya got?

Yes, you got that one, you are jerk but this is FI so I guess it's OK. The answer to your question though, after 37-years of Part 121 operations: No unsatisfactory marks on any proficiency, line or transition training checks. Prior to that I failed my instrument rating check because I didn't understand how to enter a hold. I definitely deserved that bust.

So Data, how about you?

 

[HA25]

Yes, you got that one, you are jerk but this is FI so I guess it's OK. The answer to your question though, after 37-years of Part 121 operations: No unsatisfactory marks on any proficiency, line or transition training checks. Prior to that I failed my instrument rating check because I didn't understand how to enter a hold. I definitely deserved that bust.

So Data, how about you?

I'm gonna guess that most if not all of those 37 years were spent at one of the handful of legacy airlines, with a large number of those as captain near the top of your respective aircraft/base seniority list? Not trying to add insult here, but the question had to come from one of two sources... someone who was trying to glean info about an up and coming job interview (as Data inferred).. which I believe you that you are not... or more likely an aloof senior captain with American, Delta, United, etc.. who is sincerely trying to help a young friend by asking the question, since it's been decades since he's been in the job market as a pilot... I have a few friends fortunate to be that aloof senior pilot at [Legacy] airline's, never once feeling the pain of the mid 90's furloughs, the 9/11 downturn, or the age 65 job smash... Two such friends hover around 320-340 at American... one of them in his very early 50's..

I wish I was one of those guys..


Yeah, I agree about FI... I tried to change that by introducing real moderation and pissed off Michael to the point where he asked me to step down as a moderator.... FI will never be APC sadly, even though it was the original pilot rumor forum in the USA.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I'm gonna guess that most if not all of those 37 years were spent at one of the handful of legacy airlines, with a large number of those as captain near the top of your respective aircraft/base seniority list? Not trying to add insult here, but the question had to come from one of two sources... someone who was trying to glean info about an up and coming job interview (as Data inferred).. which I believe you that you are not... or more likely an aloof senior captain with American, Delta, United, etc.. who is sincerely trying to help a young friend by asking the question, since it's been decades since he's been in the job market as a pilot... I have a few friends fortunate to be that aloof senior pilot at [Legacy] airline's, never once feeling the pain of the mid 90's furloughs, the 9/11 downturn, or the age 65 job smash... Two such friends hover around 320-340 at American... one of them in his very early 50's..

I wish I was one of those guys..


Yeah, I agree about FI... I tried to change that by introducing real moderation and pissed off Michael to the point where he asked me to step down as a moderator.... FI will never be APC sadly, even though it was the original pilot rumor forum in the USA.

Well how about this: 17-years flying sideways, 2 furloughs for 4-years total, 6-years as F/O and 10-years as a captain. Retired at 60. Should I apologize for this kind of glamour?

I need the information about checkrides for something I'm writing in order to help prevent failures of young people for very minor things, especially those in college/university programs. The assistant chiefs give phase checks and fail students as their power trip. I'm trying to make them understand that they are trashing peoples career by their actions.

 

[Data]

Yes, you got that one, you are jerk but this is FI so I guess it's OK. The answer to your question though, after 37-years of Part 121 operations: No unsatisfactory marks on any proficiency, line or transition training checks. Prior to that I failed my instrument rating check because I didn't understand how to enter a hold. I definitely deserved that bust.

So Data, how about you?

I tried to preface it with not being a jerk!

 

[HA25]

Well how about this: 17-years flying sideways, 2 furloughs for 4-years total, 6-years as F/O and 10-years as a captain. Retired at 60. Should I apologize for this kind of glamour?

Ah... proof that timing really is everything.... Sorry to hear it, but good work hanging in and making the most of it..

I need the information about checkrides for something I'm writing in order to help prevent failures of young people for very minor things, especially those in college/university programs. The assistant chiefs give phase checks and fail students as their power trip. I'm trying to make them understand that they are trashing peoples career by their actions.

Unless this examiner is being very unfair, I for one have no problem weeding those who have no business flying paying passengers in commercial operations well before they get to the cockpit... we need fewer of the AirFrance (Bhonin) and Colgan crew (both of them) getting passed along thru the system... Again, if it's a power trip and an observer can come along and verify it's unfair, then that's different... but I'm also a bit suspicious of 99% pass rates in ANY training programs... even ones where experienced pilots attend, much less students.

 

[jetstream]

Welcome to FI, UndauntedFlyer, where folks like HA25 assume they know things about you they don't and say things they woudn't dare say to your face. I call it cybercourage.

 

[HA25]

Welcome to FI, UndauntedFlyer, where folks like HA25 assume they know things about you they don't and say things they woudn't dare say to your face. The "aloof" comment was uncalled for.

No... it wasn't.. As evidenced by the fact that he had no idea what's on a pilot job application.

 

[HA25]

I tried to preface it with not being a jerk!

no accounting for thin skin.... the FI.com phenomenon works both ways.

 

[jetstream]

No... it wasn't.. As evidenced by the fact that he had no idea what's on a pilot job application.

So why can't you just answer the question without all the insults?

 

[HA25]

So why can't you just answer the question without all the insults?

go on and cut and paste where exactly I insulted him.... I merely made an dichotomous observation using a generic example of a few guys I know, if you call that an insult, you need to grow another layer of epidermis. Even Data's comment wasn't an insult. If you can't hold a conversation as an adult and accept a few tough questions, you need to remain away from the internet.

He was very generic in his question, and it came out later after our "insults" what he was geting to... I find that useful when taking the time to answer people's questions.

 

[jetstream]

He gave a direct quote of a question his friend was asked on an airline application and asked if that was typical of airline applications today.

Why did you need his personal background to answer?

 

[HA25]

He gave a direct quote of a question his friend was asked on an airline application and asked if that was typical of airline applications today.

Why did you need his personal background to answer?

In my case, I was just curious, because only an aloof senior captain wouldn't be able to answer it on his own... That said, I don't care, I wish I were one of those aloof senior captains myself, it's pure envy on my behalf, no insult intended.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Unless this examiner is being very unfair, I for one have no problem weeding those who have no business flying paying passengers in commercial operations well before they get to the cockpit... we need fewer of the AirFrance (Bhonin) and Colgan crew (both of them) getting passed along thru the system... Again, if it's a power trip and an observer can come along and verify it's unfair, then that's different... but I'm also a bit suspicious of 99% pass rates in ANY training programs... even ones where experienced pilots attend, much less students.

One problem in all college programs is that newly minted student instructors are providing much of the training in their Part 141 programs and they are recommending their very first students for phase and certification tests. This is too great a responsibly for such an experience level because, post-Colgan, student failures have become a career jeopardizing event. Unfortunately, it is the student that has the failure on his/her record and the recommending instructor escapes the situation unscarred. Most young instructors that I talk with agree that they are always learning how to become a better instructor; and, they agree that the most difficult part is learning just when a student is ready for solo, phase and certification checks. That's why a validation "training" flight by a much more experienced assistant chief is a good practice.

Regarding insults, trolling and flame-bating: No problem this is FI and that's part of the game and I know it. Members just need to have a thick skin.

 

[HA25]

Got it. Fyi Im pretty sure phase checks internal to the school do not count as fails only the FAA rides do. But I could be wrong.

Edit: just reread the original quote. It appears im wrong.