Direct Quote from DAL MEC to Grinstein on Stand

[General Lee]

"I'm going to tell you right now, Gerry, the deal is simply this. I'm up to the edge of the cliff, I'm looking over, I'm not blinking. This contract is rejected. We're striking. The Delta pilots will strike. We'll deal with you in a business manner. We will not deal with you under pressure. We will not blink. I do not blink."


That was from the hearing in front of the arbitrators on Monday I believe. Lee Moak stated that directly at Gerry Grinstein. It will get interesting.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Rogue5]

Why are you posting this on the Regionals forum?

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Why are you posting this on the Regionals forum?

A couple of reasons Rogue. Nobody would take him seriously on the Majors Forum. Just ask some of the DAL pilots. Plus being over here helps him deal with those underlying feelings of inadequacy and insecurity. Besides when you make 7000 posts you have to spread them around everywhere.

 

[Rogue5]

Exactly what I was thinking, Dave...

 

[General Lee]

Dave won't respond to me because he can't debate me. That's fine.


I posted that to make sure EVERYONE knows that there could be an eventual reality that everyone will have to accept, and prepare for. Good luck.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Rogue5]

I posted that to make sure EVERYONE knows that there could be an eventual reality that everyone will have to accept, and prepare for. Good luck.

And yet you don't post this, a topic about a potential strike at a Major airline, on the Majors board.

Strange doncha think?

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The best thing about having old GL on the "ignore" list is you can pretty much guess what he's saying without ever reading his post. Let's see. Since the title of the thread is "Direct quote from MEC....." I'd have to guess the General is posting some of the saber rattling and posturing going on. Probably something along the lines of "we'll stand firm, unyielding...blah blah blah....we will not blink in the face of....business perspective...." et al.

Don't get me wrong. I support the DAL pilots and wish them the best. I really wish they wouldn't lower the bar by offering to fly E-190's for RJ wages but I doubt if it's ever going to come to that. They will do what they need to do, similar to what's going on at NWA. "Live to fight another day."

 

[General Lee]

And yet you don't post this, a topic about a potential strike at a Major airline, on the Majors board.

Strange doncha think?

Are you sure about that? I posted it there too. You need to relax and get prepared. Better yet, go play your XBOX.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[On Your Six]

Why are you posting this on the Regionals forum?

Hey Rogue,

Why don't you get your head out of your a$$? If the DAL pilots strike then you will be impacted too. Get it?

There are a lot of naysayers who doubt the resolve of the DAL pilots. Doubting them now would be a mistake. From frequent conversations with many DAL pilot friends, I know they are serious - if the contract is voided, a STRIKE WILL HAPPEN. Simple as that.

 

[AAPilot]

The best thing about having old GL on the "ignore" list is you can pretty much guess what he's saying without ever reading his post. Let's see. Since the title of the thread is "Direct quote from MEC....." I'd have to guess the General is posting some of the saber rattling and posturing going on. Probably something along the lines of "we'll stand firm, unyielding...blah blah blah....we will not blink in the face of....business perspective...." et al.

Don't get me wrong. I support the DAL pilots and wish them the best. I really wish they wouldn't lower the bar by offering to fly E-190's for RJ wages but I doubt if it's ever going to come to that. They will do what they need to do, similar to what's going on at NWA. "Live to fight another day."

Dave, It seems interesting with your incredible wealth of aviation experience you would be ripping on GL. Maybe he has 5000 posts because he has a bit more experience and knowledge than most in here. jmo

 

[ReverseSensing]

Dave, It seems interesting with your incredible wealth of aviation experience you would be ripping on GL. Maybe he has 5000 posts because he has a bit more experience and knowledge than most in here. jmo

Experience and knowledge might account for the first 5,000, but the other 1,400 or so are just to get the natives restless and stir the pot. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't believe for a minute that GL plays in this sandbox only to ilucidate the unwashed, unknowing.

 

[On Your Six]

Experience and knowledge might account for the first 5,000, but the other 1,400 or so are just to get the natives restless and stir the pot. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't believe for a minute that GL plays in this sandbox only to ilucidate the unwashed, unknowing.

Sure, GL can be crass and a bit boisterous, but he cuts to the chase and is pretty straightforward. It's true, a DAL pilot strike will impact all of DCI. People doubt the DAL pilot group resolve - they should not in this case. DAL management is clearly exploiting the situation (no big surprise) and the DAL pilots will not allow that to happen. Other airline pilot groups will allow the wage/benefit spiral to continue to worsen (Skywest CRJ/CR7, Jet Blue 190 rates, etc.) but the DAL pilots won't stand for that. Other pilots should actually be applauding their efforts to draw a line in the sand to actually PRESERVE some good wages in this business...

Don't shoot the messenger...

 

[General Lee]

Experience and knowledge might account for the first 5,000, but the other 1,400 or so are just to get the natives restless and stir the pot. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't believe for a minute that GL plays in this sandbox only to ilucidate the unwashed, unknowing.

I've got plenty of opinions about many many topics. This forum allows me to do that on subjects I enjoy. Nobody should consider my opinions as dogma. If people don't like what we are saying about a possible strike, then they should leave the site or go watch reruns on cable. Believe what you want to believe, and if you want to respond, try to back up what you say. Otherwise, you will look like Dave Benjamin or Salty Pirate--who use slams as a tactic, or just refuse to debate and look like wheenies. I like to debate to the masses. I guess that would be called a "Mass Debator."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[79%N1]

It's official............

Gen Lee, you are officially the worlds biggest f*ck!ng tool! I am now convinced you have a total inferiority complex, and were probably picked on and beat up in school. To keep posting things on the Regional board to "show us" and keep us in line is borderline psychotic!!! Nowhere in your incoherent ramblings do you come anywhere near a coherant thought. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul!

 

[crjskipper]

<Captain Jerry L. Farquhar
32801 Hwy 441 N #118
Okeechobee, FL 34972
March 9, 2006

To the Pilot Group (Delta Air Lines):

Delta is now in its 77th year ? and in deep trouble. I was there for almost 34 of those years. I flew through a lot of Delta’s history, so I will presume to offer some observations.

Those who bear primary guilt for Delta’s situation are no longer on the property. They have bailed on their golden parachutes. It would be nice somehow to hold those responsible to account. But right now, today, that’s not the primary concern or problem.

Today’s concern is the question: Will Delta survive? And who pays the piper if the answer is NO? That brings us to the subject of STRIKE. So what is the purpose of a strike, and what does it hope to accomplish? Generally, a strike is a tool to force management fairly to share the wealth. That would be an example of justified use of the strike tool.

So, does Delta have a pot of loot they refuse to share? Clearly they don’t. They are going to need infusions of investment dollars to come through this mess. Investors are not going to put in those dollars if they see a collapsing enterprise - no more than one could expect to get a mortgage on a house collapsing from wood rot and termites.

Gerald Grinstein says a strike will cause Delta to fold. I believe him. He’s not just playing poker with you; he’s saying that the needed dollars of investment to see Delta through chapter eleven will evaporate. That’s not a management or board of directors decision. It’s a bankers’ decision beyond his control. He’s a wealthy man. If Delta folds, he can go play golf. Why should he stay and try to see Delta survive? It appears that he’s motivated by a sense of responsibility to thousands of Delta people.

Responsibility. Interesting word. Look it up. Basically, it connotes a sense of moral accountability for one’s actions. Children don’t have it. They have to be taught, and some grow up without getting it. Delta’s current mess is due to some so-called adults who somehow grew up without filling in that little block of moral learning. But finger pointing and justified anger serve no useful purpose now, if our goal is to see a great company survive.

The pilot group has been sorely put upon. So what else is new? The question is what are you going to do now?

Options: 1. Take an unfair hit in the wallet ? and plug on toward a better day. Good ammo here for later negotiations. 2. Walk away and start mailing out resumes. 3. Strike ? get even with thoose “greedy bastards.”

I have questions about Option 3. Can you get at the “greedy bastards” without shot-gunning thousands of fellow Delta employees and retirees? I’ve already lost 60% of the retirement money I earned. I know of many who have sold homes in which they had retired, and in which they expected to live the rest of their lives. If Delta closes its doors, that will be the least of the repercussions. No more jobs, no medical, travel, or other benefits.

You people are in the middle of a big poker game. You hold some cards. One of them is the STRIKE card. You’re threatening to play it. Before you do, you need to answer a few questions honestly. Am I in this poker game only for myself? Or, am I holding cards for thousands of others who weren’t dealt a playing hand in this game? Is Grinstein right when he says that playing this card will fold the game? If I don’t know the answer to that last question for SURE ? do I have the moral right to play that card anywway? Would that be a responsible act?

Lots of irresponsible acts brought Delta to its knees. Do I have the right to add one more for the death stroke? Or do I want to go for Option 1 or 2? At least I’ll be able to say “the end of Delta was not due to any irresponsible choices on my part.”

Children act out of emotion and the mistaken idea that they are the center of the universe. Adults act out of reason, a sense of responsibility, and the knowledge that their acts may profoundly affect the lives of others.

The choice is yours. I curse Ron Allen and Leo Mullin and his gang of thieves just as you do. I have no control over your actions. I can only ask that you act responsibly. Don’t leave those of us with no cards to play cursing you too!

Sincerely,

Capt. Jerry L. Farquhar, ret’d L1011>

 

[ohplease!]

I've got plenty of opinions about many many topics. This forum allows me to do that on subjects I enjoy. Nobody should consider my opinions as dogma. If people don't like what we are saying about a possible strike, then they should leave the site or go watch reruns on cable. Believe what you want to believe, and if you want to respond, try to back up what you say. Otherwise, you will look like Dave Benjamin or Salty Pirate--who use slams as a tactic, or just refuse to debate and look like wheenies. I like to debate to the masses. I guess that would be called a "Mass Debator."


Bye Bye--General Lee

you're definatley a masterbater. By the way, what the heck is a "wheenie"?

 

[79%N1]

Hey Rogue,

Why don't you get your head out of your a$$? If the DAL pilots strike then you will be impacted too. Get it?

There are a lot of naysayers who doubt the resolve of the DAL pilots. Doubting them now would be a mistake. From frequent conversations with many DAL pilot friends, I know they are serious - if the contract is voided, a STRIKE WILL HAPPEN. Simple as that.

True. However, all us dum reejunal pilets is smart enuff to figgur that out without Gen Lee tellin us evry day! Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[On Your Six]

I've got plenty of opinions about many many topics. This forum allows me to do that on subjects I enjoy. Nobody should consider my opinions as dogma. If people don't like what we are saying about a possible strike, then they should leave the site or go watch reruns on cable. Believe what you want to believe, and if you want to respond, try to back up what you say. Otherwise, you will look like Dave Benjamin or Salty Pirate--who use slams as a tactic, or just refuse to debate and look like wheenies. I like to debate to the masses. I guess that would be called a "Mass Debator."


Bye Bye--General Lee

I agree. People can't debate the facts and must resort to slams in many cases. Look, this is so simple: DAL pilots will strike if the contract is thrown out. This will impact all of DCI. Therefore, those pilots should be aware of the resolve among DAL pilots to draw a line in the sand and PRESERVE wage sanity in this business. Get it??????

 

[ReverseSensing]

Believe what you want to believe, and if you want to respond, try to back up what you say. Otherwise, you will look like Dave Benjamin or Salty Pirate--who use slams as a tactic, or just refuse to debate and look like wheenies.

What's to debate? I say about 1/3 of your posts are intended to incite animosity, and 2/3 are somewhat informative. You say different. There, we debated. It's not a slam: it's my opinion. You want me to back it up? Okay: it's really my opinion.

You really should learn to accept a back-handed compliment a little better. I'm being pretty generous with saying you're batting over .666.

 

[General Lee]

you're definatley a masterbater. By the way, what the heck is a "wheenie"?

Is that what your wife said on the wedding night?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[On Your Six]

True. However, all us dum reejunal pilets is smart enuff to figgur that out without Gen Lee tellin us evry day! Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I understand your point - he can get monotonous at times. That being said, this is an information forum and people can choose to either ignore GL or just avoid Flightinfo. I doubt he is writing this to personally offend you or your pilot groups. It is about demonstrating resolve to the many naysayers out there... No need to go ballistic.

 

[General Lee]

What's to debate? I say about 1/3 of your posts are intended to incite animosity, and 2/3 are somewhat informative. You say different. There, we debated. It's not a slam: it's my opinion. You want me to back it up? Okay: it's really my opinion.

You really should learn to accept a back-handed compliment a little better. I'm being pretty generous with saying you're batting over .666.

Thanks, I guess. I wasn't slamming you. There are some on this baord that think the regional board is only for regional pilots. I am interested in all parts of this industry. I am not trying to incite animosity, but rather inciting good debate on topics that are relevant. I would say a lot of people don't like my stance on SkyWest and their pilot's acceptance of flying larger planes for the lower rates of smaller planes. I thought that was a bad trend, and it spread to other carriers now. The difference is that those carriers aren't in Chap 11. They accepted a lower wage for a quicker upgrade, and now their own airlines are expanding at the Major airline's expense, and they LOVE IT. They will stay there longer, and make less money. Good for them. We are fighting our own battles on our own front, but it doesn't help when the junior pilots at SkyWest can't see what they are doing to themselves. Even the senior guys at SkyWest could see it coming.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

True. However, all us dum reejunal pilets is smart enuff to figgur that out without Gen Lee tellin us evry day! Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't put yourself down so much. Have some self respect. Don't believe what you are saying. Most of you guys are well educated, except the RJDC folks. I think you guys do a great job, except when you try to get larger RJs when we are losing our 737-200s. You need to stop that. But, keep your head up, and things will get better, eventually, probably. Cheer up.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[79%N1]

GL is so insecure, he NEEDS to make sure us dum reejunal pylets are sure to know how GL and his 51% control our lives. We get it! Are we dumb enough to not know that a strike by DL will adversely affect ASA/Comair/Skywest? Duh! But he makes sure we know it. And he NEEDS to make sure we know that we will never fly anything bigger than 70 seats, he and his 51% will make sure! SO what! We get it. He doesnt talk like he is informative. He talks at us like we are all surfs in his Kingdom, and he may slop us with bread and water if we behave. That is why so many here cannot stand him. MOST of his posts belong on the Majors board. Ask yourself, why does he feel so compelled to force those posts on the Regional board! What you say is true about avoiding him. Flightinfo really has become all about GL, his opinions, and forcing his will on regional pilots. I am leaning towards avoiding FI all together because of this! I mean, for crying out loud, the guy hijacks a thread about upgrades at ASA!!!!!!! WHY!?!?!?!??!

 

[General Lee]

GL is so insecure, he NEEDS to make sure us dum reejunal pylets are sure to know how GL and his 51% control our lives. We get it! Are we dumb enough to not know that a strike by DL will adversely affect ASA/Comair/Skywest? Duh! But he makes sure we know it. And he NEEDS to make sure we know that we will never fly anything bigger than 70 seats, he and his 51% will make sure! SO what! We get it. He doesnt talk like he is informative. He talks at us like we are all surfs in his Kingdom, and he may slop us with bread and water if we behave. That is why so many here cannot stand him. MOST of his posts belong on the Majors board. Ask yourself, why does he feel so compelled to force those posts on the Regional board! What you say is true about avoiding him. Flightinfo really has become all about GL, his opinions, and forcing his will on regional pilots. I am leaning towards avoiding FI all together because of this! I mean, for crying out loud, the guy hijacks a thread about upgrades at ASA!!!!!!! WHY!?!?!?!??!

Hey, calm down down, ya hear? Don't have a coronary. Breathe in, Breathe out. Sheesh. Hey, I know this is a rough time for all of us, but I do have some good news. I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurrance by switching to GEICO. And, I thought I would share some news from an ALPA witness a couple days ago too about DL's health:


Delta May Be In Better Shape Then Projected

Delta's five year plan starting in has already significantly reduced costs.
By Associated Press
Wednesday, March 22, 2006
(AP) _ A pilots union economic expert says Delta Air Lines is in better competitive shape than its executives portray.
The expert testified in an arbitration hearing yesterday that Delta has performed so well recently that it doesn't need any of the 325 (m) million dollars in cuts it is seeking from its pilots.


Doesn't that make you feel better? I like the Regional Board by the way, it is more lively and the issues here need to be debated. Really, they do.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ReverseSensing]

I mean, for crying out loud, the guy hijacks a thread about upgrades at ASA!!!!!!! WHY!?!?!?!??!

Because:

I am interested in all parts of this industry.

 

[Rogue5]

Are you sure about that? I posted it there too.

Jen-

Don't play fast and loose with the facts. I checked your post over there and it was done at 905, well after we started railing on you in this thread for not posting it there. I was fairly certain you'd run there and post it after the fact, I just wanted to see if you'd do it and then have the nuts to claim you did it beforehand.

BTW, I know for certain if DAL strikes it will have a HUGE effect on SKYW. I have no ill will towards DAL pilots in general and I wish them the best. My problem is personal with Jen Leigh and his arrogance and conceit, but even in my disdain for him I wish him the best because I know your fight is important to this career.

I sincerely hope to not see Jen and his boys sign off on a crappy T.A., he seems to think he speaks for 50.1% at DAL and that will not occur.

Time will tell...

 

[General Lee]

Jen-

Don't play fast and loose with the facts. I checked your post over there and it was done at 905, well after we started railing on you in this thread for not posting it there. I was fairly certain you'd run there and post it after the fact, I just wanted to see if you'd do it and then have the nuts to claim you did it beforehand.

BTW, I know for certain if DAL strikes it will have a HUGE effect on SKYW. I have no ill will towards DAL pilots in general and I wish them the best. My problem is personal with Jen Leigh and his arrogance and conceit, but even in my disdain for him I wish him the best because I know your fight is important to this career.

I sincerely hope to not see Jen and his boys sign off on a crappy T.A., he seems to think he speaks for 50.1% at DAL and that will not occur.

Time will tell...

I like the JEN part. Classic. Anyway, I did post on the regional board first, you are correct. That doesn't mean I wasn't going to post it on the Majors board. As I stated to good ole 79%N1, right now I enjoy this board more, since it is more lively. Nothing wrong with that, and we can post on either board. I enjoy all of the boards on this site.

Tootles.


Bye Bye--General Lee