Difficult Captains

[Stifler's Mom]

And regardless which seat you are in, the appropriate reply when the other crew member catches your mistake is, "thank you."

Good point, and this tone is most likely set during the brief before you even set out on the first flight. Nothing better than a Capt. who up front says "keep me out of trouble, I'll keep you out of trouble, let's have a good time."

 

[EOpilot]

As an F/E, I had a captain who was trying desperately to depart after I told him that the aft cargo door wasn't closing properly. He and the mechanic attempted to let the flight go by deferring the cargo door light.

After convincing the captain that it wasn't the light, but, in fact, the door that was the problem, he had the mechanic force the door closed with a crowbar. It succeeded in extinguishing the light, but I was far from comfortable with the situation.

The captain insisted on begining the taxi to see if the light would stay out. When the light flickered on with every bump in the taxiway, the captain said it was OK with him if it was OK with us. I said, "It's OK with me as long as you drop me off at the next taxiway. I'll use the escape rope."

He eventually decided it was unwise to show up at the destination with two crewmembers on a three-person aircraft and turned back to the ramp.

The same captain attempted, on another occasion, to plow the aircraft 30 feet deep into the mud next to the runway on a screwed up Cat II approach. The only reason we survived was due to the F/O screaming "MISS! MISS! MISS!" in an unnaturally high pitch and shoving the throttles up.

Morals:
1.) Never assume the guy/gal next to you is incapable of trying to kill you just because he/she has been there longer than you.

2.) Speak up if something makes you uncomfortable (i.e. imminent death). You'll only have yourself to blame if you don't.

 

[SkywayFO]

My favorite brief goes like this...."I've been flying this thing for a while, I have seen alot of $hit but not everything. If you see something you don't like or that I am doing different ask..Cause I'm either doing it wrong or different, and one of us will learn from it. If we keep it off the grass and out of the trees we will get along just fine!"

The day I stop learning in an airplane, I am either dead or about ready to to die!!!!

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

I love men with big hands. www.ngpa.org

dude, are you for real?

 

[SkywayFO]

I never noticed that signature line. Some one has been screwing with my account. I must have left it up on a public computer at a hotel.

 

[flint4xx]

Outstanding leaders go out of the way to boost the self-esteem of their personnel. If people believe in themselves, it's amazing what they can accomplish.
--Sam Walton

Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
--General George S. Patton


The key to successful leadership today is influence, not authority.
--Kenneth Blanchard

A boss creates fear, a leader confidence.
A boss fixes blame, a leader corrects mistakes.
A boss knows all, a leader asks questions.
A boss makes work drudgery, a leader makes it interesting.
A boss is interested in himself or herself, a leader is interested
in the group.
--Russell H. Ewing

 

[singlespeed]

My IOE captain a few years back yelled and screamed at me every leg. We had an incident where he purposely screwed me up. We got on the ground and had a conversation about the incident. I told him I quite and I was going to call the CP to explain my side. We worked the problem out and the next leg he signed me off. Later that month he quite and went to a new LCC on the east coast. From what I understand he was fired for dropping the F-bomb in front of the CEO during the first week of training. Now that’s smooth

 

[skyking1976]

When I was flying a Pt. 135 charter trip for Scott Air Charter I flew with a real bonafide a-hole Captain.

After unloading pax at FRG, the line guy came up to me (F/O) and asked for a fuel load. Before I could get 2 syllables of "I'll ask the boss." out, AND while still in earshot of the pax, the Capt. starts yelling "You'd better keep your godd@mned mouth shut! I'm the Captain and I cay what happens on this airplane and you don't know sh!t!" He then stomped off towards the FBO.

Needless to say I was taken aback by his diatribe and was on the phone to the CP immediately. Upon returning home the CP was waiting to meet the airplane and had a chat with the Capt. I'm sure that you can guess the outcome.

A few months prior to that I had another confrontation with the same guy. Having gotten my training (and type rating) at Simuflite I was taught to add approach flaps at mid-field downwind in a VFR traffic pattern (which we were going to be in). About 5 miles outside of the BTV traffic pattern he puts the flaps to approach (which I was not prepared for) without so much as a word to me. I had figured that he might have bumped the flap handle accidentaly so I put the flaps back up. I got chastised for that. That was my first indication that this guy was a complete jack@ss.

After that incident I did some investigating. I called the F/O who flew with the Capt. prior to me. It turns out that this Capt. had quite a long history of pi$$ing off F/O's and that I was the 4th F/O to fly with him in a year and a half. (The owner of the A/C wouldn't pay for more than 1 crew to be attached to his plane and the rest of the pilots weren't qualified for the plane.)

So, if any of you guys knew any of the King Air 350 pilots around Scott Air Charter you know exactly who I am talking about and his personality type.

Just my $.02,

SK



P.S. Singlespeed, you've GOT to get a new avatar. I just ate dinner and now it's not sitting so well...

 

[singlespeed]

Skyking1976,

My Capt. and yours must be the same guy or classmates at A-hole school. Ain't she a perrty one

 

[skyking1976]

Skyking1976,

...Ain't she a perrty one

Uhhh... yeah, a real peach...

 

[hurryup&wait]

little help here?...

I've got a particular captain who is a good guy part of the time with a vast knowledge of anything related to flying. His other side is one of whining and complaining about the company and our management. He also likes to belittle the other employees including those who are my friends. He won't go to the particular person about it or to the CP. He just rants on and on about it to me or whoever the unlucky FO may be.

The tricky part about all of this is he's a line captain and the company check airman. I don't want to get on the wrong side of the guy giving my p.c.'s. But I'm just getting to the boiling point with his negativity.

Any suggestions as to a way to get him to look on the bright side of things more often?

 

[350DRIVER]

Any suggestions as to a way to get him to look on the bright side of things more often?

I don't think that it is in your best interest or your business to get him to do anything other than making sure he is "safe" which appears to be the case. If "your" friends have a "problem" with him then I would suggest letting them handle it the way they deem it appropriate to do. There is way too much "politics" to deal with in this business and I surely would not pi$$ this guy off or get on his bad side if I were you since the "incidents" or "complaints" were directed towards your friends and not you .

The tricky part about all of this is he's a line captain and the company check airman. I don't want to get on the wrong side of the guy giving my p.c.'s. But I'm just getting to the boiling point with his negativity.

You will find that quite a few of these guys do exist within many companies and as much as one person may dislike them many others in management and elsewhere seem to respect them to the utmost for whatever reasons. Be very careful not to burn and bridges since you may end up making a mistake that may not be correctable.


Sometimes it is easier to put up with it, laugh, (sometimes rather hard) and shrug it off.


3 5 0

 

[skyking1976]

little help here?...

I've got a particular captain who is a good guy part of the time with a vast knowledge of anything related to flying. His other side is one of whining and complaining about the company and our management. He also likes to belittle the other employees including those who are my friends. He won't go to the particular person about it or to the CP. He just rants on and on about it to me or whoever the unlucky FO may be.

The tricky part about all of this is he's a line captain and the company check airman. I don't want to get on the wrong side of the guy giving my p.c.'s. But I'm just getting to the boiling point with his negativity.

Any suggestions as to a way to get him to look on the bright side of things more often?

Accentuate the positive. Pick his brain about flying. You won't (and shouldn't try to) change his mind about other people in the company but you might get his attention focused on other productive topics. Get him to talk about other airplanes he's flown. That will get him to tell you some "war" stories. The guy I flew with was a complete jerk, but he did have some good stories to tell.

Hope this helps,
SK

 

[mar]

Exactly

350Driver and Skyking offer good advice.

These guys exist at every company and the sooner you learn how to handle them the happier you'll be.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Wow! Some of these stories are outright scary. I thought we all flew because we enjoy it and for the fun of it. Just when you think you experienced something pretty bad someone comes up with something much worse!

Basically it comes down to a number of factors that I use in dealing with different crewmembers not listed specifically to importance -

1. We all make mistakes. We should be tolerant of that fact and work on fixing the problems instead of attaching blame.

2. Aircraft are certified and/or operated with multiple crewmembers for a reason. It take all those people to operate it safely. No one person is more important than the other, we just have different responsibilites which include looking after each other without judgement or rancor.

3. Like someone else stated learn something from everyone you fly with - either how to behave or how NOT to behave and interact with others.

4. Captains have to remember that they were at one time FO's or SO's and were not born to the left seat. Tolerance and patience are required. Other crewmembers should understand that the Captain is not infallible and needs our assistance.

5. Make it your responsibility to work as effectively as possible with all crewmembers. This skill group is just as important as basic flying skills.

6. Remember that just how people might perceive people may differ from person to person. That "assh*le captain" might be a great person to other people. The other thing to think about is just how people perceive ourselves? Do people say unflattering things about ourselves behind our backs?

7. Always attempt to take the higher road, there is an old hackneyed saying that still holds some creedence even today. "To err is human to forgive divine". Even attempting this construct is better than nothing.

8. We all have good days and bad days. Hopefully we will all not be having a bad day at the same time.

9. Some people will be impossible to work with. Recognize that and take the measures necessary to maintain safe operations. Do your upmost to make sure that YOU are NOT one of those people.

10. Never stop evaluating yourself. Don't be over-critical, or beat yourself up. Just always do a "post flight breifing" on how you handle yourself, over and beyond just the way you handled the aircraft. Effective interpersonal relations are an integral part to the safe operations of multi crewed aircraft.

Well that's my worthless two cents worth. I can't add any stories that are any different from anyone elses.

Take Care & Good Luck To Us All!

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

After being an FO for 3 years and recently upgrading, I've learned a few new things. I now realize how relaxed I had become as an FO. I wasn't the one in charge and things weren't my problem. Now as a new captain I'm always thinking about what could go wrong and how it's ulimately my responsibility. I try to use what I learned observing captains for 3 years and be the kind of captain I wanted to fly with.

On the other hand, I remember listening to groups of captains in the crew lounge talking and saying, "I can't stand to fly with such and such FO." It goes both ways.

For both captains and FOs, just be a good pilot, be a well socially adjusted person ("gets along well with others"), and don't be too proud to accept that you may be wrong somtimes.

It's funny though how being captain of a Brasilia in many ways is a lot more like being the PIC of the Chieftain I used to fly as well as the trainers I instructed in. The one who is ultimately responsible. Not to say that FO's are ever off the hook if something goes wrong. Flying the RJ as an FO was a blast, but I really enjoy being the captain of a weedwhacker. Now I understand why PIC time is so important. I guess the hum of those jet engines lulled me into a trance.

 

[mar]

The Captain-in-Training

Those are true words.

Ideally, the FO should be (acts like and is treated as) a Captain in Training.

But so often you get an FO who thinks, Well my training is finished and I know how to do my job and any Capt that says different is just being a pain in the butt.

Sometimes there are FOs who approach every flight like a lesson. These guys fly every leg like a check ride. There is no jargon; the checklist is always used; they're enthusiastic about the job; etc.

But I don't want to derail this thread. Maybe we should start another topic.

I just want to add one more thing:

You know the old saying, The only thing worse than the Capt that's never been a copilot is the copilot that was once a Capt....???

Well, that was me about a year ago.

It took a HUGE effort on my part to back off and let the decision making in left seat happen for better or for worse.

Unfortunately now, I'm afraid that I've become the stereotypical slacker FO who is never accountable for anything.

Hell I could have my VOR tuned to the same station for the entire flight and most of the Capts I fly with would never say anything---you know, 'cause they're great guys and I love flying with them...

...but man, what a loser I've become.

Fly safe.

 

[AviateYou]

There is a saying I heard some time ago..."The Best Captains are the easiest to work with."

 

[bobbysamd]

Captains and interviews

What gets me about this whole discussion is the emphasis on being the hail fellow, well met at the interview. To be anything but is a recipe for rejection. So, how is it that these individuals in question get past the interview, training, being FOs and finally to the left seat and get away with being douchebags? I always understood that during the interview you are being evaluated on your ability to get along with others.

 

[T-Gates]

Re: Captains and interviews

What gets me about this whole discussion is the emphasis on being the hail fellow, well met at the interview. To be anything but is a recipe for rejection. So, how is it that these individuals in question get past the interview, training, being FOs and finally to the left seat and get away with being douchebags? I always understood that during the interview you are being evaluated on your ability to get along with others.

You'd think that would be the case wouldn't you?

But some people sneak through. I don't mind flying with those guys though. They are just showing me what kind of captain I won't be when I upgrade.

The best captains are laid-back, but no so laid back as to be complacent.