Difference between a DP and a SID?

[XTW]

If there is a ODP published for the runway to be used and if the tower fails to issue any other departure instructions, anybody departing into IMC conditions without following the ODP is an accident waiting to happen. VMC is a different story.

Before departing IPT last week, the tower controller actually asked us if we had the ODP for runway 27. It was the first time I had ever had a tower controller ask this question. I'm glad he does this as I'm sure there are some pilots that overlook this VERY important piece of "survival equipment".

X

 

[troy]

From FAA-H-8261-1, Instrument Procedures Handbook:

SID VERSUS DP
​

Prior to 2000, instrument departure procedures (DPs) were published in two separate formats: IFR departure procedures and standard instrument departures (SIDs). IFR departure procedures were textual obstacle clearance procedures published by the Office of Aviation System Standards (AVN). SIDs were graphically depicted, preplanned departure procedures produced by the FAA Air Traffic Service (ATS). In December of 2000, in an attempt to bring the creation and development of departure procedures into a common processing system, the FAA shifted responsibility to a single creation group and also changed the associated terminology.
Once this change was made, all departure procedures were termed DPs, with IFR departure procedures renamed obstacle departure procedures (ODPs), and SIDs renamed system enhancement DPs. Additionally, the creation and publication of DPs was given to the National Flight Procedures Office (NFPO). Due to the confusion both internally among pilots in the U.S., and externally among foreign pilots (the term SID is used abroad), the FAA has decided to return to a modified version of the original naming convention. Departure procedures will be divided into two groups, SIDs and ODPs. While the date of conversion is not exact, it is currently in work. For simplification of this discussion, we will refer to departure procedures as ODPs and SIDs.​

 

[Vector4fun]

XTW,

Your post reminded me I really can't speak for all Towers. I've been civilian FAA my whole career. The facilities I've worked have all had approach controls and always taken care of ODP procedures. I really don't know how all contract towers operate, and whether they all follow the same procedures...

 

[JECKEL]

I talked to controller in RDU last trip about their ODP of climb to 3000 ft msl before turning off 23L. He, once again had no idea what I was talking about, but after about 5 minutes of research, has said the ODP was in case the tower was ever closed or for the possiblity of being in a non radar environment. All RDU MVAs and SOPs outlined by their TERPs manual take such things into account.

They would not expect you to fly the ODP on you own accord nor should you presume that it is part of a clearance unless otherwise advised. Instructions from the tower and departure control would cover protect you from obstacles.

 

[midlifeflyer]

They would not expect you to fly the ODP on you own accord nor should you presume that it is part of a clearance unless otherwise advised.

Of course, that's not what the AIM says. From AIM 5.2:

==============================
ODPs are recommended for obstruction clearance and may be flown without ATC clearance unless an alternate departure procedure (SID or radar vector) has been specifically assigned by ATC. "
==============================

Or maybe the Pilot/Controller Glossary will help. You know, the one that's part of both the AIM and the ATC Manual?

==============================
OBSTACLE DEPARTURE PROCEDURE (ODP)- A preplanned instrument flight rule (IFR) departure procedure printed for pilot use in textual or graphic form to provide obstruction clearance via the least onerous route from the terminal area to the appropriate en route structure. ODPs are recommended for obstruction clearance and may be flown without ATC clearance unless an alternate departure procedure (SID or radar vector) has been specifically assigned by ATC.
==============================

On the other hand, your controller stared the conversation by saying he didn't know what you were talking about.

Hmmmm. Specific information in the AIM vs. a controller who claims to be clueless. I wonder which one I will rely on.

In a radar environment, the difference won't matter since ATC will almost always issue a radar vector or alternate departure procedure, which negates the ODP.

But if you are =not= given vectors after takeoff or another departure procedure and you don't follow the ODP because no one specifically told you to, we could be reading about you in an interesting NTSB report, all wondering why this instrument pilot had a CFIT accident when there was a printed procedure to keep him out of the rocks.

 

[CLECA]

Midlifeflyer is right on the $$. The DP's are there for your safety as everyone has stated and it is imperative that you fly them in IMC conditions. They are however negated if tower gives you a turn other than the DP. If tower has you in radar contact and gives you a turn you are supposed to follow that. I believe in NOS charts there is a dedicated section but we use Jepps so I'm not sure. Other than this what everyone else has said is right on the mark. Our company requires us to brief any DP's for the RWY we use prior to all T/O's regardless of IMC vs. VMC. I think they were originally for non-towered airports but they are at all now if the airport needs it. They are there for any obstructions, not just terrain above x height and within x miles of the rwy and again can be referenced by your A/C climb performance. I believe SAV has some for towers and stacks. Flame away.

 

[doug_or]

CLECA- you are correct, there is a section at the begining (section c?)of the NOS packet with all published ODPs for that region.

 

[Flyguy6]

From my understanding and I am not an expert, bt I have flown into and out of SAV twice in my life. When you get your clearence, you wil contact SAV departure and they will vector you out of class C airspace and I believe that that uis the SID. So, you dont really have to worry cause they wil vector you out of the class C anyway