Did NWA's Indy presence drive out ATA?

[Schwanker]

Saw this on another thread. Apparently it was a message sent to TZ employees:

".....a competitor airline began a campaign
that resulted in Indianapolis becoming unaffordable for ATA. For instance:
• Service was added to every ATA nonstop jet route except San Francisco
• Schedules were matched to reduce ATA traffic - in the IND-DFW market, all 3 daily ATA
flights were matched with competing flights departing within 20 minutes
• Fare structures were reduced in all leisure markets
• Funded an advertising campaign that ATA could not match
ATA tried to compete in Indianapolis by matching fares, offering web specials, and implementing new pricing strategies. However, our percent of seats filled in January on Indianapolis flights is expected to be only 62%, and still more flights will be added by the competition. Simply put, the new competition is forcing ATA to lose money every day in Indianapolis. We have better aircraft, friendly, experienced Employees, loyal Customers and a great product. But, ATA does not have enough resources to wait for market conditions to improve."

 

[METARMan]

No, I don't think NWA drove out ATA.

For the last 18 months ATA management, in retrospect, made some very poor management decisions that lost lots of money. They also filed bankruptcy so late that ATA had an extremely low cash reserve...they could no longer advertise, compete or even operate their own airline.

Mikelsons destroyed ATA, not Northwest.

 

[HarleyGuy]

Amen, brother! Southwest just installed a co- restructuring officer, and that seems to me to be about the most hope-inspiring fact I've heard for ATA.

 

[tranceport]

and this was all NOT caused by just one person who tried to run an airline from scratch for a few decades people.

Any company, not just airlines, suffers when the expenses exceeds income. Quit being so narrowminded.

FYI, save one or two airlines, ALL are losing money. It's just a matter of time. Even the almighty SWA wouldn't have made money if it wasn't for the hedging contracts.

Please, for pete sakes, put down the crack pipe and sober up....it's the whole industry. Take some time to read SEC filings these companies are filing. to try and point a finger at one person is ludicrous. we've got overcapacity, fare wars, oil prices, health benefits going up double digits per year, etc etc....not one person! duh

 

[sweptback]

I know many have said this, but ATA is the best airline that nobody has heard about.

When I lived in Dallas, they started DFW-IND service. I'm not sure if DFW-MDW was already established or started around the same time. Thing is, had I not heard that on some aviation news site, I never would have heard about it otherwise. I never once saw an ad on TV or a billboard on the side of the road or anything.

Compare that to AirTran, who practically bombarded DFW with advertising. I saw AirTran stuff everywhere advertising their routes, the "youngest Boeing fleet", etc.

 

[METARMan]

and this was all NOT caused by just one person who tried to run an airline from scratch for a few decades people.

Any company, not just airlines, suffers when the expenses exceeds income. Quit being so narrowminded.

FYI, save one or two airlines, ALL are losing money. It's just a matter of time. Even the almighty SWA wouldn't have made money if it wasn't for the hedging contracts.

Please, for pete sakes, put down the crack pipe and sober up....it's the whole industry. Take some time to read SEC filings these companies are filing. to try and point a finger at one person is ludicrous. we've got overcapacity, fare wars, oil prices, health benefits going up double digits per year, etc etc....not one person! duh

Tranceport,

If your analysis was accurate every airline would eventually be destroyed by the current economy. However, this just simply isn't the case. Why did CAL avoid bankruptcy and UAL go in head first? Maybe Gordon's years of careful planning and foresight had something to do with that? Why are LUV, AAI and JBLU surviving while ATAH and FLYI failing? Management...

Almost all airlines have profitable years and unprofitable years. Although this cycle is fierce, it has happened before and will happen again. It is a great example of the survival of the fittest.

The fact of the matter is ATAH could be giving NWA the fight of their life right now, if management did things differently.

At the end of 2002 loads started dropping off, big time...some months our system wide load factor was about 50%! Management instituted new routes, all of which did not take hold. I remember doing EWR-SFO in the 737NG with 11 people in the back. Did Mikelsons not think UAL and CAL were going to increase their capacity on the same route?

ATA lost a lot of money and only infrequently were they able to fill up the aircraft. We were the "biggest airline that nobody heard of". As stated previously on this thread, ATA did very little advertising.

Many of the line employees saw the problems and knew what had to be done, but management either wasn't listening or didn't care. I think that ATA was a charter airline for so long management honestly didn't see the value in advertising and probably was incapable of marketing the airline properly in such a competitive market.

ATA continued to lose money, lots of it. Bankruptcy probably should have been filed months before, however because George had so much financial control of the company (founder, majority shareholder, etc.) I assume he put off bankruptcy as long as he possibly could.

There were other problems, some of which include: front end loaded leases, new management that came from within (no new ideas), aircraft that were probably too big, lack of advertising and the fierce economic conditions listed in previous threads.

Also, I'm not sure about this (it is just a theory), but I think if ATA ALPA took a harder stand with the company initially and instead of going along quickly with concessions, it may have forced management to start looking at ways of increasing revenue...but again, don't beat me up for this because it is just a thought I'm throwing out there. My Monday morning quartbackering shows that ATA management was mainly concerned with reducing labor costs. The problem with that is that ATA's labor costs were already very low and labor by itself would not save the carrier. If ATA ALPA wasn't so closely linked with management maybe a bit of tough love would have been beneficial?

However, I believe ATA would have been able to weather the storm if we had management that was innovative and experienced in running a SCHEDULED low cost airline.

If we had a Gordon or Dave Neelman at the helm of ATA in 2003 I firmly believe we'd be out of bankruptcy and giving NWA the fight of their life right now.

ATA was an outstanding airline. Most pilots that worked there had an outstanding attitude and would tell you that the airline had so many opportunities to turn itself around. Management just sat on their hands. Godspeed to all current and former ATA pilots...