Did NetJets hire Union Buster agaisnt flight attendants?

[pilotyip]

Jeez, YIP! give it a rest.

Be glad to when everyone else does, think that will happen?

 

[brokeflyer]

sorry for avaoiding the question. I wouldn't call them company busters....they're really "job protectors" Refer to my previous post.

Im no union lover, but the alternative is much worse. The protections a union provides for pilots should just be "regulation" then you wouldnt have to have a union.

What i hate is how unions give a guy sweeping the floor $30 per hour.

that has to stop.

 

[BentOver]

BTW: Follow seniority pretty much, never hire off the street if there are internal qualified candidates, movement between seats based upon seniority, everyone recalled who was laid off got their old date of hire back. Guys who quit and came back went to the bottom of the seniority list. As long as it is to the benefit of management. If they don't particularly like someone they don't have to bring them back. Also, when the management team messes up all bets are off and they will do anything to cover they're own as.s. IE: They'll throw the employees under the bus.[/QUOTE]

There fixed it for you.

I'm all for helping out when I can. And I don't break out the contract whenever something out of the ordinary is asked of me.... But I don't doubt for one second that I was(am) just a number that was(is) viewed as a liabiabilty to the companies bottom line. If they(management) could figure out a way to get the work done with less employees they would definitely attempt to do it.

 

[imacdog]

Wasn't just think of RLA when referring to "Company Busters", but again good dodge of the questions, you should run for office as a liberal.

BTW: You mean the guys who were recalled in seniority and are now DC-9 Captains? Those guys?

Not a dodge - you're just uncomfortable with the fact that the RLA significantly limits the threat a company faces from a union. Understood that a manager doesn't like the truth getting out.

Are you admitting then that your company furloughed out of seniority order? Union contracts typically prevent bottom feeder stuff like that.

 

[Helmsalee]

They are not called "company busters" because they don't want the company to cease to exist. Unlike management who want the union dead and gone. There, I answered your question. Happy?

 

[tomgoodman]

Only a foolish labor leader would be unconcerned about the company's financial health. Samuel Gompers, one of the founders of America’s organized labor movement said, “The worst crime against working people is a company which fails to operate at a profit.”

 

[rajflyboy]

The company can choose to give themselves a "penalty" for working pilots over a set time if they wish.... Until they change their minds.

A union contact is suppose to lock in certain contractual work rules/pay/benefits that both sides agreed to, and are not suppose to change except by mutual concent of both the union and the company, until the next contract is ratified or a lockout/strike occurs (under RLA rules).

A good example of the protection a union contract offers is that the NJA flight attendents did not lose their 401k match, while the company chose to revoke the 401k match from the NJI flight attendants for a period of time.

I think everyone should read the book "confessions of a union buster" , this MAD FA campaign sounds like some of the tactics he documents participating in while working as an anti-union consultant.

Exactly

 

[pilotyip]

Only a foolish labor leader would be unconcerned about the company's financial health. Samuel Gompers, one of the founders of America’s organized labor movement said, “The worst crime against working people is a company which fails to operate at a profit.”

Thank you Tom, I think many times these activists loose sight of this dilemma or disregard the financial statements because they do not fit the agenda.

 

[gret]

Thank you Tom, I think many times these activists loose sight of this dilemma or disregard the financial statements because they do not fit the agenda.

Ditto..a sign at least of sanity.

Only a fool, or someone afraid to stand up and speak for themselves, would let others negotiate on their behalf.

 

[FRACfa]

I would invite everyone to visit our website: http://www.netjetsflightattendants.com
Love Unions or Hate Unions NJA current management is not looking out for us. $200 Million in profits, 270 flight attendants breaking the bank?? I DONT'T THINK SO! Here is what we stand to loose:
Dear Fellow Flight Attendants,

It is vitally important that if you read nothing else you at a minimum read this.

We are writing to you today from a place of real concern. There are, it seems, a few Flight Attendants who believe that if we get rid of the Union we can return to the old NJI days. It is no secret that we all in some ways grieve for the days of NJI, the way we were treated by our management teams, the way we all banded together and just did what it took to take care of the owners and earn a living for ourselves and our loved ones. A lot has changed since those wonderful days we long for. These Flight Attendants from FA MAD have some valid concerns, but we feel that their efforts are dangerous and misguided.

It is important to remember what our lives looked like when the company had an opportunity to save a bit here and there.

FACT- They took our 401k match.

FACT- They made us pay a considerable contribution towards our medical benefits.

It is better for us to have some representation at this point in our careers than none at all.

FACT - If we were to decertify the Union, our 401k match would be gone again, we will once again be paying for our medical benefits,

FACT- They could force us to be cross utilized on EVERY fleet.

FACT- They could force us all onto an 18 day schedule and eliminate our 7-7 schedules.

FACT- if the above scenarios are allowed to proceed the company could lay off a third of the Flight Attendants.

FACT- NJA management is running the show now not NJI, they are a completely different team, a team that is focused on squeezing the very last drop of utility out of us even if it means we are not at the top of our game.

FACT- The Letter of Agreement regarding the integration of NJI and NJA Flight Attendants stated that the "Gulfstream flight attendants will be paid in accordance with current NJI pay practices (including eligibility for salary increases)" to date the Gulfstream Flight Attendants have YET to get a raise in 2012.

FACT- We are your Gulfstream negotiations team, we have been sitting in negotiations with them for the last 18 months, we know what we are dealing with, it is almost like we are negotiating during a bankruptcy, totally ignoring the fact that we as a company through hard work, dedication and resourcefulness turned a $200 million dollar profit last year.

- It also seems that the Company has slowed their bargaining efforts markedly recently, we think this may be in order to aid this movement to decertify by dividing and frustrating the membership.

FACT- The only thing FA MAD are offering you is a chance to save your dues money each month, but consider this, your medical benefit contribution alone would eat those savings up instantly and with your 401k contribution eliminated you would most certainly be in the red.

In closing, we are trying to negotiate a more workable contract for us all as a whole, international, domestic, we have heard you all with regards to the way the company is scheduling us. The company, on the other hand is busy trying to fine tune their computer programs to get even MORE utilization out of each and every one of us without any regard to human factors. The first crew that the program finds that is legal gets the trip, regardless if the next crew has sat for 3 days and you yourselves just came in 12 hours before.

If we decertify you can kiss any chance of more reasonable rest provisions goodbye. Of course the NetJets and the FA MAD will say that all we use are threats but these are facts based on the history and actions of this company and it is up to you whether to believe them or not.

Rest assured with no Union they can do as they like to us and to refuse would be insubordination. There would be nothing any of us could do for a minimum of 2 years if we wanted to vote in another Union. If we run across even tougher times they could furlough, they wouldn't need to go in seniority order, in fact it would be very foolish of them to do so as the senior people make way more in salary and enjoy more vacations. Frankly we find it a little insulting we can put two and two together and come up with four.

Please do not fall for the bait, we need representation moving forward, indeed it is the only way if we are to move forward.

With the utmost respect and regard to all Net Jets Flight Attendants,

 

[FRACfa]

P.S. Thank y'll for your support!!! We need it!!

 

[gret]

So it wasn't mgmt. It was other flight attendants that want the union out....

 

[brokeflyer]

So it wasn't mgmt. It was other flight attendants that want the union out....

yeah im sure management is crying to keep that union.

The truth is most likely a secret backdoor deal with management and a few FA's that are being bought off to start all this. That way management can sit back and play dumb.

It happens all the time. Just look at the recent recall.

 

[gret]

Possible...but doubtful. They wouldn't want to become outcasts unless they felt strongly about the matter.

Ya know, we've been punked by a bad actor/actress with this thread. It starts off with "oh woe is me" and then the truth comes out.

The melodramatic, and shoot from the hip, comments that have been made here signal serious character flaws. They also are disrespectful and embarrassing to that group of union members who are stand up men and women.

Yup...it is all mgmt fault and they are no damn good and we, union members, are right and righteous...

 

[FRACfa]

Possible...but doubtful. They wouldn't want to become outcasts unless they felt strongly about the matter.

Ya know, we've been punked by a bad actor/actress with this thread. It starts off with "oh woe is me" and then the truth comes out.

The melodramatic, and shoot from the hip, comments that have been made here signal serious character flaws. They also are disrespectful and embarrassing to that group of union members who are stand up men and women.

Yup...it is all mgmt fault and they are no damn good and we, union members, are right and righteous...

This happened in real time. I asked the question because I didn't know. I won't waste my time answering your other questions of defending myself to you. Are you even a pilot?? You embarrassed of your "equipment" it must be small.
Civ/Mil: n/a
A/C Flown: n/a
Ratings: n/a
Total Time: n/a
You probably work for Management or Ron Mason.
PS I have flaws just ask my EX. I'm sure you do to.

 

[G4dude]

Thank you Tom, I think many times these activists loose sight of this dilemma or disregard the financial statements because they do not fit the agenda.

The Labor leader quoted expressed noble sentiments, but the practical application of union activities is anti profit, generally. This phenomenon is partly caused by the senior union leaders, who tend to care little for the LONG TERM survival of the company. The percentage of rank and file, who have little understanding of the marketplace and the difficulties of turning a profit, pretty much finish off their host company eventually, it seems to me.
The FAs I have talked with are split on whether they want a union, but they seem to be in agreement against the Teamsters. After what the Teamsters did not do for NJA pilots, can you blame them?

 

[G4dude]

I would invite everyone to visit our website: http://www.netjetsflightattendants.com
Love Unions or Hate Unions NJA current management is not looking out for us. $200 Million in profits, 270 flight attendants breaking the bank?? I DONT'T THINK SO! Here is what we stand to loose:
Dear Fellow Flight Attendants,

It is vitally important that if you read nothing else you at a minimum read this.

We are writing to you today from a place of real concern. There are, it seems, a few Flight Attendants who believe that if we get rid of the Union we can return to the old NJI days. It is no secret that we all in some ways grieve for the days of NJI, the way we were treated by our management teams, the way we all banded together and just did what it took to take care of the owners and earn a living for ourselves and our loved ones. A lot has changed since those wonderful days we long for. These Flight Attendants from FA MAD have some valid concerns, but we feel that their efforts are dangerous and misguided.

It is important to remember what our lives looked like when the company had an opportunity to save a bit here and there.

FACT- They took our 401k match.

FACT- They made us pay a considerable contribution towards our medical benefits.

It is better for us to have some representation at this point in our careers than none at all.

FACT - If we were to decertify the Union, our 401k match would be gone again, we will once again be paying for our medical benefits,

FACT- They could force us to be cross utilized on EVERY fleet.

FACT- They could force us all onto an 18 day schedule and eliminate our 7-7 schedules.

FACT- if the above scenarios are allowed to proceed the company could lay off a third of the Flight Attendants.

FACT- NJA management is running the show now not NJI, they are a completely different team, a team that is focused on squeezing the very last drop of utility out of us even if it means we are not at the top of our game.

FACT- The Letter of Agreement regarding the integration of NJI and NJA Flight Attendants stated that the "Gulfstream flight attendants will be paid in accordance with current NJI pay practices (including eligibility for salary increases)" to date the Gulfstream Flight Attendants have YET to get a raise in 2012.

FACT- We are your Gulfstream negotiations team, we have been sitting in negotiations with them for the last 18 months, we know what we are dealing with, it is almost like we are negotiating during a bankruptcy, totally ignoring the fact that we as a company through hard work, dedication and resourcefulness turned a $200 million dollar profit last year.

- It also seems that the Company has slowed their bargaining efforts markedly recently, we think this may be in order to aid this movement to decertify by dividing and frustrating the membership.

FACT- The only thing FA MAD are offering you is a chance to save your dues money each month, but consider this, your medical benefit contribution alone would eat those savings up instantly and with your 401k contribution eliminated you would most certainly be in the red.

In closing, we are trying to negotiate a more workable contract for us all as a whole, international, domestic, we have heard you all with regards to the way the company is scheduling us. The company, on the other hand is busy trying to fine tune their computer programs to get even MORE utilization out of each and every one of us without any regard to human factors. The first crew that the program finds that is legal gets the trip, regardless if the next crew has sat for 3 days and you yourselves just came in 12 hours before.

If we decertify you can kiss any chance of more reasonable rest provisions goodbye. Of course the NetJets and the FA MAD will say that all we use are threats but these are facts based on the history and actions of this company and it is up to you whether to believe them or not.

Rest assured with no Union they can do as they like to us and to refuse would be insubordination. There would be nothing any of us could do for a minimum of 2 years if we wanted to vote in another Union. If we run across even tougher times they could furlough, they wouldn't need to go in seniority order, in fact it would be very foolish of them to do so as the senior people make way more in salary and enjoy more vacations. Frankly we find it a little insulting we can put two and two together and come up with four.

Please do not fall for the bait, we need representation moving forward, indeed it is the only way if we are to move forward.

With the utmost respect and regard to all Net Jets Flight Attendants,

Where did you get the information that y'all will lose your 401K if the union is decertified? What facts can you cite about the massive layoffs accompanying decertification? What a bewilderingly hysterical post, it seems to me.

 

[Helmsalee]

G4,
All of the non-union people lost their 401K match. Do you think FAs would be an exception without the union? Same with the medical premiums. Get real.

 

[imacdog]

G4 lives in fantasy land. Getting real isn't his forte.

 

[Praetorian]

Only a fool, or someone afraid to stand up and speak for themselves, would let others negotiate on their behalf.

Are we to take away from this statement that in your perfect world, unions would not exist, and freed from the shackles of collective bargaining, each individual pilot would have the ability to negotiate his/her own deal directly with management?

My cousin is a bank VP. He is always able to work his own deal, because his knowledge and experience would be lost to his company if he were to go elsewhere. That is the basis of his bargaining power, but pilots don't have that kind of leverage, as individuals, because our knowledge and experience can be easily replaced for less money.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall, in the chief pilot's office, the day you walk in as an at-will pilot and ask for a contract for yourself.