Did NetJets hire Union Buster agaisnt flight attendants?

[FRACfa]

I am a NetJets flight attendant and got a letter from lawyer trying to bust our union. He sent us cards to decertify. I am mailing back in pieces. I hope Hansell and NJA management aren't behind this. Here is the website. http://famadblog.wordpress.com/ What do you all think?

 

[OPECJet]

Probably. Either that or an NJI FA still drinking the Kool Aid.

 

[CA1900]

I am a NetJets flight attendant and got a letter from lawyer trying to bust our union. He sent us cards to decertify. I am mailing back in pieces.

From his site: Remember: Do not listen to rumors and rhetoric from anyone.


Sounds to me like you reacted appropriately. And I have no doubt management is behind it! Remember where the boss came from, and one of that firm's practice areas: http://www.nyemaster.com/aspx/practice_areas.aspx?lsid=68

 

[fischman]

There is a section to leave comments. Trust me. DON'T POST ANYTHING. You'll regret it. Ask me how I know.

 

[gret]

Hypothetical question...what would be the view if management wasn't behind this and the majority of FA's don't want a union?

Is this the first anyone has heard of the matter? If so, then barking at shadows is probably warranted.

 

[FRACfa]

Hypothetical question...what would be the view if management wasn't behind this and the majority of FA's don't want a union?

Is this the first anyone has heard of the matter? If so, then barking at shadows is probably warranted.

I guess we will be without a union. Everyone I have talked to is taken by surprised. It seems to be a few Gulfstream fas who think that everything will go back to the way it was without a union. I hear from the gossip that many of them still talk to BN and SE and they say that they would like to make it like NJI but the union.............

 

[FRACfa]

There is a section to leave comments. Trust me. DON'T POST ANYTHING. You'll regret it. Ask me how I know.

I did try to post a comment asking "who they were?" is was not approved. GO Figure!

 

[NJAPLT]

If anyone had a question about if our collective unions were dealing with a well organized, and experienced union busters this time around, it has been answered.

Oh, and I suspect that these union busters are already monitoring aviation web sites such as this, to see if their campaign to decertify "takes root."

 

[rajflyboy]

There is one reason you need a union at a frac.

The schedule that you have. If you work a 7 and 7 the company has to get you home on day 7 or else face major penalties. Same is true on the other schedules. Whether it be an 8 and 6 or a 15 day or an 18 day.

The company is forced to get you home on the last day.

Without the union this would not be true. 7 day tours could turn into 9 day tours, etc etc. You get the point. You must have a union in the frac business.

 

[jonjuan]

There is one reason you need a union at a frac.

The schedule that you have. If you work a 7 and 7 the company has to get you home on day 7 or else face major penalties. Same is true on the other schedules. Whether it be an 8 and 6 or a 15 day or an 18 day.

The company is forced to get you home on the last day.

Without the union this would not be true. 7 day tours could turn into 9 day tours, etc etc. You get the point. You must have a union in the frac business.

The others don't or some currently don't. The ones who don't, do not have "penalties" for getting folks home? What about nji? Before they were unionized, were there not penalties for extended days?

 

[NJAPLT]

The company can choose to give themselves a "penalty" for working pilots over a set time if they wish.... Until they change their minds.

A union contact is suppose to lock in certain contractual work rules/pay/benefits that both sides agreed to, and are not suppose to change except by mutual concent of both the union and the company, until the next contract is ratified or a lockout/strike occurs (under RLA rules).

A good example of the protection a union contract offers is that the NJA flight attendents did not lose their 401k match, while the company chose to revoke the 401k match from the NJI flight attendants for a period of time.

I think everyone should read the book "confessions of a union buster" , this MAD FA campaign sounds like some of the tactics he documents participating in while working as an anti-union consultant.

 

[FRACfa]

from Mason's mouth-I smell a RAT!

http://http://theohiolaborlawyers.wordpress.com/about-mr-mason
My name is Ronald Mason, and I am a management-side labor and employment attorney based in Columbus, Ohio. I am the managing partner of our firm - Mason Law Firm – that has a national reputation for keeping companies union-free and negotiating tough contracts when necessary, as well as advising companies when their employees choose to decertify unions (get rid of the union) and deauthorize unions (get rid of mandatory union dues).
I have practiced labor law for 30 years and I have negotiated so many union contracts that I cannot tell you the total number. I am a former attorney with the National Labor Relations Board and I have not only a J.D. degree graduating with the highest honors, I also have a LL.M. in Labor Law degree from Georgetown University.
We successfully navigate the minefield that is the National Labor Relations Act and accomplish the difficult labor work that other firms can’t perform. We also have a very active employment law practice. We advise companies in every aspect of employment law including federal and state Civil Rights laws, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Fair Labor Standards Act, and the Family Medical and Leave Act.
We also counsel and train management regarding trades secrets, reductions in force, severance packages, drug testing, and immigration compliance. We have created and/or audited handbooks, serve as a consultant before terminations, and advocate for employers before the both state and federal court systems. In all, our firm has litigated labor and employment matters in ten different states.

Our firm has its own twin engine private aircraft certified to fly in any weather and we can travel over half this Country in less time than you can travel by airline. We view ourselves as firemen who at a moment’s notice must drop whatever we are doing and respond to your immediate needs. We have represented companies in negotiations and before the National Labor relations Board from Alabama and Georgia to Michigan and from Connecticut to California. I am licensed to practice in both Ohio and Georgia. However, I do not have to be licensed to practice in any particular state if your case is a matter before the National Labor Relations Board or in any Union organizing attempt or NLRB election.

 

[kman]

There is one reason you need a union at a frac.

The schedule that you have. If you work a 7 and 7 the company has to get you home on day 7 or else face major penalties. Same is true on the other schedules. Whether it be an 8 and 6 or a 15 day or an 18 day.

The company is forced to get you home on the last day.

Without the union this would not be true. 7 day tours could turn into 9 day tours, etc etc. You get the point. You must have a union in the frac business.

Actually, that's incorrect. They can schedule you all they want on day 7 and don't even have to try to get you home. They just have to pay you, but I totally agree, we do need the union in place.

 

[pilotyip]

There is one reason you need a union at a frac.

The schedule that you have. If you work a 7 and 7 the company has to get you home on day 7 or else face major penalties. Same is true on the other schedules. Whether it be an 8 and 6 or a 15 day or an 18 day.

The company is forced to get you home on the last day.

Without the union this would not be true. 7 day tours could turn into 9 day tours, etc etc. You get the point. You must have a union in the frac business.

yea the same things a non-union charter company does to keep a union out.

BTW: How come when union organizers come in they are never called "Company Busters"?

 

[brokeflyer]

BTW: How come when union organizers come in they are never called "Company Busters"?

because a union saves a company from itself. Otherwise management's theft is massive. A pilot should be paid a professional salary and benefits. along with a realistic schedule.

 

[imacdog]

Seniority rights are another thing a union helps to provide. Something ol' Yipster knows something about abrogating, right Yip?

 

[pilotyip]

because a union saves a company from itself. Otherwise management's theft is massive. A pilot should be paid a professional salary and benefits. along with a realistic schedule.

Seniority rights are another thing a union helps to provide. Something ol' Yipster knows something about abrogating, right Yip?

Both nice doges of the question, both must be libs, avoid the question; place blame on someone or something. Why aren't you answering the question of why aren't union organizers called "company busters"? How about dead companies like United States Steel, GM, Chrysler, Wyandotte Chemical, Inland Steel, etc. When a union pushes management into a corner with a strike threat, the company often has to do things they not to be in their best interest. Reference GM in 1994 when they knew they could not afford the union contract in the long term, but knew that would be less devastating than a strike in the short term for a company that had borrowed to the limit and needed the cash flow to stay solvent.

BTW: Follow seniority pretty much, never hire off the street if there are internal qualified candidates, movement between seats based upon seniority, everyone recalled who was laid off got their old date of hire back. Guys who quit and came back went to the bottom of the seniority list.

 

[imacdog]

Yeah YIP, airlines are really skeeeered of a strike, what with the RLA and all......

BTW: Follow seniority pretty much, never hire off the street if there are internal qualified candidates, movement between seats based upon seniority, everyone recalled who was laid off got their old date of hire back.

Just to be clear, you're referring to the people that got furloughed regardless of seniority because they were on the Falcon?

 

[pilotyip]

Yeah YIP, airlines are really skeeeered of a strike, what with the RLA and all......



Just to be clear, you're referring to the people that got furloughed regardless of seniority because they were on the Falcon?

Wasn't just think of RLA when referring to "Company Busters", but again good dodge of the questions, you should run for office as a liberal.

BTW: You mean the guys who were recalled in seniority and are now DC-9 Captains? Those guys?

 

[fob727]

Both nice doges of the question, both must be libs, avoid the question; place blame on someone or something. Why aren't you answering the question of why aren't union organizers called "company busters"? How about dead companies like United States Steel, GM, Chrysler, Wyandotte Chemical, Inland Steel, etc. When a union pushes management into a corner with a strike threat, the company often has to do things they not to be in their best interest. Reference GM in 1994 when they knew they could not afford the union contract in the long term, but knew that would be less devastating than a strike in the short term for a company that had borrowed to the limit and needed the cash flow to stay solvent.

BTW: Follow seniority pretty much, never hire off the street if there are internal qualified candidates, movement between seats based upon seniority, everyone recalled who was laid off got their old date of hire back. Guys who quit and came back went to the bottom of the seniority list.

Jeez, YIP! give it a rest.

 

[pilotyip]

Jeez, YIP! give it a rest.

Be glad to when everyone else does, think that will happen?

 

[brokeflyer]

sorry for avaoiding the question. I wouldn't call them company busters....they're really "job protectors" Refer to my previous post.

Im no union lover, but the alternative is much worse. The protections a union provides for pilots should just be "regulation" then you wouldnt have to have a union.

What i hate is how unions give a guy sweeping the floor $30 per hour.

that has to stop.

 

[BentOver]

BTW: Follow seniority pretty much, never hire off the street if there are internal qualified candidates, movement between seats based upon seniority, everyone recalled who was laid off got their old date of hire back. Guys who quit and came back went to the bottom of the seniority list. As long as it is to the benefit of management. If they don't particularly like someone they don't have to bring them back. Also, when the management team messes up all bets are off and they will do anything to cover they're own as.s. IE: They'll throw the employees under the bus.[/QUOTE]

There fixed it for you.

I'm all for helping out when I can. And I don't break out the contract whenever something out of the ordinary is asked of me.... But I don't doubt for one second that I was(am) just a number that was(is) viewed as a liabiabilty to the companies bottom line. If they(management) could figure out a way to get the work done with less employees they would definitely attempt to do it.

 

[imacdog]

Wasn't just think of RLA when referring to "Company Busters", but again good dodge of the questions, you should run for office as a liberal.

BTW: You mean the guys who were recalled in seniority and are now DC-9 Captains? Those guys?

Not a dodge - you're just uncomfortable with the fact that the RLA significantly limits the threat a company faces from a union. Understood that a manager doesn't like the truth getting out.

Are you admitting then that your company furloughed out of seniority order? Union contracts typically prevent bottom feeder stuff like that.

 

[Helmsalee]

They are not called "company busters" because they don't want the company to cease to exist. Unlike management who want the union dead and gone. There, I answered your question. Happy?

 

[tomgoodman]

Only a foolish labor leader would be unconcerned about the company's financial health. Samuel Gompers, one of the founders of America’s organized labor movement said, “The worst crime against working people is a company which fails to operate at a profit.”

 

[rajflyboy]

The company can choose to give themselves a "penalty" for working pilots over a set time if they wish.... Until they change their minds.

A union contact is suppose to lock in certain contractual work rules/pay/benefits that both sides agreed to, and are not suppose to change except by mutual concent of both the union and the company, until the next contract is ratified or a lockout/strike occurs (under RLA rules).

A good example of the protection a union contract offers is that the NJA flight attendents did not lose their 401k match, while the company chose to revoke the 401k match from the NJI flight attendants for a period of time.

I think everyone should read the book "confessions of a union buster" , this MAD FA campaign sounds like some of the tactics he documents participating in while working as an anti-union consultant.

Exactly

 

[pilotyip]

Only a foolish labor leader would be unconcerned about the company's financial health. Samuel Gompers, one of the founders of America’s organized labor movement said, “The worst crime against working people is a company which fails to operate at a profit.”

Thank you Tom, I think many times these activists loose sight of this dilemma or disregard the financial statements because they do not fit the agenda.

 

[gret]

Thank you Tom, I think many times these activists loose sight of this dilemma or disregard the financial statements because they do not fit the agenda.

Ditto..a sign at least of sanity.

Only a fool, or someone afraid to stand up and speak for themselves, would let others negotiate on their behalf.

 

[FRACfa]

I would invite everyone to visit our website: http://www.netjetsflightattendants.com
Love Unions or Hate Unions NJA current management is not looking out for us. $200 Million in profits, 270 flight attendants breaking the bank?? I DONT'T THINK SO! Here is what we stand to loose:
Dear Fellow Flight Attendants,

It is vitally important that if you read nothing else you at a minimum read this.

We are writing to you today from a place of real concern. There are, it seems, a few Flight Attendants who believe that if we get rid of the Union we can return to the old NJI days. It is no secret that we all in some ways grieve for the days of NJI, the way we were treated by our management teams, the way we all banded together and just did what it took to take care of the owners and earn a living for ourselves and our loved ones. A lot has changed since those wonderful days we long for. These Flight Attendants from FA MAD have some valid concerns, but we feel that their efforts are dangerous and misguided.

It is important to remember what our lives looked like when the company had an opportunity to save a bit here and there.

FACT- They took our 401k match.

FACT- They made us pay a considerable contribution towards our medical benefits.

It is better for us to have some representation at this point in our careers than none at all.

FACT - If we were to decertify the Union, our 401k match would be gone again, we will once again be paying for our medical benefits,

FACT- They could force us to be cross utilized on EVERY fleet.

FACT- They could force us all onto an 18 day schedule and eliminate our 7-7 schedules.

FACT- if the above scenarios are allowed to proceed the company could lay off a third of the Flight Attendants.

FACT- NJA management is running the show now not NJI, they are a completely different team, a team that is focused on squeezing the very last drop of utility out of us even if it means we are not at the top of our game.

FACT- The Letter of Agreement regarding the integration of NJI and NJA Flight Attendants stated that the "Gulfstream flight attendants will be paid in accordance with current NJI pay practices (including eligibility for salary increases)" to date the Gulfstream Flight Attendants have YET to get a raise in 2012.

FACT- We are your Gulfstream negotiations team, we have been sitting in negotiations with them for the last 18 months, we know what we are dealing with, it is almost like we are negotiating during a bankruptcy, totally ignoring the fact that we as a company through hard work, dedication and resourcefulness turned a $200 million dollar profit last year.

- It also seems that the Company has slowed their bargaining efforts markedly recently, we think this may be in order to aid this movement to decertify by dividing and frustrating the membership.

FACT- The only thing FA MAD are offering you is a chance to save your dues money each month, but consider this, your medical benefit contribution alone would eat those savings up instantly and with your 401k contribution eliminated you would most certainly be in the red.

In closing, we are trying to negotiate a more workable contract for us all as a whole, international, domestic, we have heard you all with regards to the way the company is scheduling us. The company, on the other hand is busy trying to fine tune their computer programs to get even MORE utilization out of each and every one of us without any regard to human factors. The first crew that the program finds that is legal gets the trip, regardless if the next crew has sat for 3 days and you yourselves just came in 12 hours before.

If we decertify you can kiss any chance of more reasonable rest provisions goodbye. Of course the NetJets and the FA MAD will say that all we use are threats but these are facts based on the history and actions of this company and it is up to you whether to believe them or not.

Rest assured with no Union they can do as they like to us and to refuse would be insubordination. There would be nothing any of us could do for a minimum of 2 years if we wanted to vote in another Union. If we run across even tougher times they could furlough, they wouldn't need to go in seniority order, in fact it would be very foolish of them to do so as the senior people make way more in salary and enjoy more vacations. Frankly we find it a little insulting we can put two and two together and come up with four.

Please do not fall for the bait, we need representation moving forward, indeed it is the only way if we are to move forward.

With the utmost respect and regard to all Net Jets Flight Attendants,