Devil's Advocate

[Flyby1206]

MEL'ed- definitely thinking outside the box, but I don't like having my pay change according to how many pax are on board if I am not responsible for recruiting pax. In every other commission based job you are directly responsible for the X factor that your commision is based upon. I do think that there is room for improvement in the block-or-better pay. How about block-or-less pay? Under block by 5 mins and you get 5 mins of extra pay on top of the block time. Reduces engine/airframe times which would be a huge savings.

 

[120% Torque]

I can't recall anything in particular that wasn't run of the mill positive spin. As far as what I taught, I gave examples of when I thought management was wrong in crew rest and pay issues. I did everything short of losing my job (which was threatened because I had made an end run arounf BH to the company legal counsel) when pay for newhires was taken away. I gave the newhires all the ammunition they needed in form of Utah statutes concerning minimum wage. I think if it were taken any farther, management would have said, "You know, you're right. We can't call them employees (with ID cards and jumpseat privileges) if we don't pay them....so we won't give them ID cards or pay their hotel, or give them jumpseat privileges or DOH until they complete training. We won't even charge them for the training. How do you like that?"

My standard line to the newhires about how I felt about SkyWest was that there was no other seat in the airline industry that I would rather be watching from than the bleachers at SkyWest.

I know I didn't vote in favor of the one rate fits all pay raise that most of the pilots did to give Brad an Ace. (I was allowed to vote in that one)



I told newhires if they were pressured to fly when not legal (or even against the Policy Manual) to give me a call if they thought I could help.

Let me digress a bit. In the esarly 70's, I was catching a hop on a T-29 from Echterdingen (Stuttgart, Germany) to Mildenhall, England. As I was the first there, I settled in toward the rear and parted the pretty blue curtains on the right side of the aircraft to watch for the arrival of the party that was allowing me to ride. In a minute, the Flight Steward (a mid-grade USAF seargent) in his Blue blazer came up to me and asked if I wouldn't mind closing the curtains. I didn't mind at all but asked him why. He said that it might cause the general to wonder why all the curtains were closed except for one and he wanted to keep his job. I resolved at that point that I never wanted a job that required me to keep the curtains lined up.

Since I'm now my own boss, I don't have that problem. I presume that anyone working for anyone else does so because they think it is worth the aggrevation or soon will be. I can't imagine staying in a situation that provides only long-term aggrevation.
********
One more thing. I was gone by the time the SAPA coup took place and, if I understand it correctly, that would have been a turning point in my promotion of SAPA.

I appreciate your honesty in answering this question. It is difficult to find people who have been in a unique position such as yours, with your pulse on what management was saying and how they were treating the new hires and pilots in general. I feel you are someone who calls it like you see it. I find it especially refreshing that today you are beholden to no one but yourself and can give a straight un-influenced answer. I think the biggest concern for alot of pilots at skywest is that sapa, the organization that is supposed to represent them, in large part is beholden to the company for a variety of reasons including managerial promotion, sapa days off and sapa compensation.

I applaud you for going to bat for new hires even while putting your own position in jeapardy. I get the feeling you really did care and tried to give them the tools to right an otherwise wrong. In light of how all that played out and then what happened with the attempted coup of the standing sapa president, with company guidance would you say that skywest does a very good job of following their mission statement/"Union free statement" published by Skywest at Skywestonline and other company websites:

"Our dedication to fairness in all we do, coupled with an uncompromising commitment to quality, truly sets SkyWest apart as an airline and an employer. Each employee deserves respect. We continue to update our policies and procedures to ensure you will be treated fairly and consistently."

Also out of curiosity what was it about the sapa coup that would have sent you the other direction regarding alpa or unions?

For those of you unfamiliar, Andy for years was an instructor and pilot advocate at skywest. He for as long as I can remember has tried to provide valid information to those working at skywest and those knocking on the door at websites such as this.

 

[MEL'ed]

MEL'ed- definitely thinking outside the box, but I don't like having my pay change according to how many pax are on board if I am not responsible for recruiting pax. In every other commission based job you are directly responsible for the X factor that your commision is based upon. I do think that there is room for improvement in the block-or-better pay. How about block-or-less pay? Under block by 5 mins and you get 5 mins of extra pay on top of the block time. Reduces engine/airframe times which would be a huge savings.

While we wouldn't be directly responsible for recruitment, we already are indirectly responsible. If every employee always had a smile on his/her face, used ma'am and sir when addressing a passenger whose name we did not know, never complained on the job in front of pax, and put forth a generally more friendly/approachable personality, I think we would have more frequent return pax. I know most go for the cheap ticket, but if a certain airline was always friendly, helpful, and pax had an enjoyable experience on them, I wouldn't be surprised if slowly more people starting migrating to this certain airline even if the ticket was $20 more. It would be a long, slow process but sure would make all our jobs more fun/tolerable and passenger/employee respect would be driven up.

Once I started thinking about other positions such as ramp, bag handling, there could be motivation incentives there too. Base pay for bag handlers plus a certain amount, .05 or .10 for each bag loaded. May cut down on lost bags as rampers actually look for them rather than saying "screw it, they'll make it on a later flight." This would all cost small money in the short term, but save money in the long haul with fewer bag deliveries by outsourcing deliverers to hotels/homes, better respect by pax knowing they always get their bag and being on top of DOT lists for fewest lost bags. That idea is just a start too.

Block or less is an interesting concept as well. Would it be "block or better" or "block or less" whichever you are? Basically only making scheduled pay for flights that take exactly the blocked pay.

 

[Andy Neill]

.....It is difficult to find people who have been in a unique position such as yours, with your pulse on what management was saying and how they were treating the new hires and pilots in general. I feel you are someone who calls it like you see it. I find it especially refreshing that today you are beholden to no one but yourself and can give a straight un-influenced answer......
In light of how all that played out and then what happened with the attempted coup of the standing sapa president, with company guidance would you say that skywest does a very good job of following their mission statement/"Union free statement" published by Skywest at Skywestonline and other company websites: .....
Also out of curiosity what was it about the sapa coup that would have sent you the other direction regarding alpa or unions? .....

For those of you unfamiliar, Andy for years was an instructor [classroom only] and pilot advocate at skywest. He for as long as I can remember has tried to provide valid information to those working at skywest and those knocking on the door at websites such as this.

Thanks for the kind words. Regardless of what the company was or wasn't doing in the case at hand, I couldn't believe that the secretary of SAPA would say that the president wasn't the president and that the secretary was. [All I know about the incident is what I had read on flightinfo].

Although I would have ceased to be an advocate of SAPA, I can't imagine anything that would have sent me into the union camp. I viewed SkyWest as a grand experiment in labor relations where management and pilots could work together to run an airline that could turn on a dime for the benefit of all. If a union comes on property (as it may need to...that decision is certainly that of the pilots there and not ours) that experiment will be over. This is the first time I have made a public stand (if you want to call it that) on any union drive at SkyWest.

 

[rumrnr78]

Ok I'll bite (and forget duty rig junk and all the rest) here it is, FO pay 2nd year for the 50 seater is 50k, 5 year FO pay for the 70 seater is 70k and 5 year FO pay for the 90 is 75k. They are based on 60% Captain wages (the rest adjusted accordingly). Regional pilots are professional pilots and deserve nothing less!
Cheers-rum

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Thanks for the kind words. Regardless of what the company was or wasn't doing in the case at hand, I couldn't believe that the secretary of SAPA would say that the president wasn't the president and that the secretary was. [All I know about the incident is what I had read on flightinfo].

Although I would have ceased to be an advocate of SAPA, I can't imagine anything that would have sent me into the union camp. I viewed SkyWest as a grand experiment in labor relations where management and pilots could work together to run an airline that could turn on a dime for the benefit of all. If a union comes on property (as it may need to...that decision is certainly that of the pilots there and not ours) that experiment will be over. This is the first time I have made a public stand (if you want to call it that) on any union drive at SkyWest.

In the distant past, I didn't think we needed a union either...but sadly that need has now become very obvious!

 

[Swass]

To the original poster - more seats = more revenue for the company, thusly you should make more money.

 

[WabiSabi]

If I were the devil's advocate I could ask the opposite question: Why should a pilot of a CRJ-200 or SF-340 for that matter be paid less than a 747 pilot? It's the same job. We've let pay slip way too far and the 50+ seat rates (and smaller planes for that matter) are way too low.

I don't think that pilot compensation should coincide with the productivity of each individual aircraft type within the same airline. i.e. I think UPS has it right; pay by seniority and seat, not aircraft type. That way, if someone senior wants to bid another plane because of more desirable QOL, the pay doesn't drop just because it might be a smaller plane. As for adjusting the pay for productivity, that should be negotiated based on the company's overall revenue, not each airplane.

 

[Way2Broke]

I'm surprised someone hasn't brought up the idea of the national seniority list yet. :smash:

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

I always figures pay should equal the skill and stress
required to fly the plane. So a B-18 pilot would be
paid more than a CRJ 900.

We get paid more for flying easy planes. Why gives?

CE