Developing ADM in students

[unreal]

I've currently got a pre-solo student who's really causing me some major headaches. Overall he's a good student, a bit prone to not studying, but normally he comes in ready to learn. His landings are a bit lacking at the moment, but we're making progress, and that's about all I can ask for. I know that I can clean up his flying in time, but even if I do that I simply can't solo him.

I hate to say it, but he's absolutely unable to make decisions without me. Throughout his training, I've tried my best to get him to start thinking on his own in the airplane. As he gets better, I talk less and less and allow him to make the decisions. Eventually, I'm looking for him to simply take me on an airplane ride without me having to say a word. The last solo student I signed off took to this approach quite well, and I'm very happy with his decision making ability with the amount of hours he has.

However, this student has the tendency to absolutely freeze up if I stop talking. While he's making progress in his flying, he's making absolutely no progress in the ability to make decisions in the cockpit. Obviously even if I can get him to an excellent stick and rudder ability, I can't sign him off if he's dependent on me to prompt him for everything. If I try to ween him off of my prompting, he freaks out. He's not a horribly confident person out of the cockpit it seems, so I'm guessing that part of this problem stems from that.

So, I'm absolutely stumped. Any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[SPilot]

I have a similar student in instrument: technically proficient once the skill have been practiced for a while, but always unsure about what decisions and actions that are appropriate, and when to do what during a flight. Essentially what I did, was breaking everything down to simple steps (many hours of oral). It ended up with pages upon pages of "decision making cycles" that he would learn, and today he's doing the correct things at appropriate times, but with very little flexibility if unfamiliar conditions arise.. I'm hoping that one day, with enough practice, he will see the bigger picture of each little step that makes up the flight.

Try connecting each decision item to when something changes - anytime throttle setting is changed, either cruise or descent checklist should be performed, anytime descending below a certain altitude for landing, the pre-landing checklist should be performed and so on... If the student dont see the reason behind the flow of actions performed during a flight, maybe its better to break the actions down into more specific events, and make decision-flow checklists for each of them. With my student, the studying of the decision making itself, also heightened his awareness of why things should be performed during the flight. Talking about every little item and in-flight issue of interest also made him more knowledgable about the things he needs to decide upon, and so he is now able to correlate alot more, and also percieve more events and take them into consideration.

...£.2

 

[mattpilot]

Had/have a similar situation..... timid student. I just stopped telling him what to do and asked him what he thought the best course of action would be, mostly based on common sense. While he really disliked this approach at first, i got him to be somewhat proactive. I told him he couldn't possibly fark up bad enough that would get us in a life threatening situation - and i demonstrated that by "accidentally" pulling out the mixture during cruise.

 

[JediNein]

I tend to ease into being the quiet one. I warn my students that as they get more and more proficient, they find that I know less and less. On the flight they get the warning, I answer one of their questions with a shrug of my shoulders, 'I dunno', and a dumb look on my face (easy for me to do). On other students, their question might get a really stupid answer, something so obviously wrong that they can only laugh.

I'll provide a prompt or two, but eventually, no prompts, just questions, 'Does this look right to you?' If you really want to rattle cages, I'll give them the concerned look while asking if that (their correct answer) is their final answer. If the student sticks with the right answer, I'll agree with them. If they change the answer, then I ask if they are absolutely certain. I'll go as far as triple dog dare with a cherry on top to see if they'll stick with the correct answer.

Has the student 'soloed' on the preflights? One instructor sent a timid student out to do the oreflight solo, then stepped into the airplane at the appointed time without checking anything. 'But what if I missed something?" asked the student. "Then we die," replies the instructor.

And sometimes the student takes 220 flight hours to get to the point where something can change inflight and it doesn't rattle them beyond being able to fly safely.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[Princedietrich]

I've taken a couple different approaches to this problem in the past.

I was working with an instrument rating student several years ago who had great technical skill but was a bit lacking in the ATC department. The first time he got an IFR clearance, when it was time for the readback he just stared at me and stammered with a deer in the headlights look. He would frequently trip over his own tongue during communications and would depend on me to bail him out. The next flight we made, I told him before the initial radio call that I wasn't going to help him this time (I KNEW that he knew what to say and how to say it because we'd practiced it during table flying). As he was calling up to get his clearance, I made sure he was watching as I unplugged the mike on my headset so I literally couldn't talk. His radio calls from that moment on were stellar.

I've found that when it comes to trying to get a pilot to make decisions themselves and not rely on me, I had success in forcing them into the right mindset. Whenever a student or trainee would ask me to make the decision for them or ask me a question that we both knew they should know, my reply would be "You tell me, Captain." or "You're the Captain, not me." Most of the time that would work, but sometimes you get a guy that will have a statement like this go right over their head. At this point, I find it very effective to wave the gun in their face.

 

[woutlaw]

Have you just discussed this specifically with him? You know, the old "You need to start making decisions on your own before I can solo you" talk?

I try to make it a point from lesson one to both prompt for decisions (go/no-go, let the student pick the airport we'll go practice at, etc...) but also reinforce good ADM when they do make it. ("Great decision to do a go-around" or "Nice job picking up the weather 20 miles out....")

One thing that got that message across to me when I was having a similar problem during my private training back in the day was when my instructor got in the airplane, slid his seat all the way back so he couldn't reach the controls, crossed his arms and said "now take me up for a couple of trips around the pattern. I'm not going to say or touch anything, so you're on your own."

To his credit, he never flinched or uncrossed his arms although I'm sure he wanted to.

Did two things: Reinforced that I really was in charge and gave me a load of confidence.

Technically it did three things because I was also convinced at the time that instructors were insane.

 

[Princedietrich]

Technically it did three things because I was also convinced at the time that instructors were insane.

But we ARE insane!

YEE-HAW! 1 2 3 4
YEE-HAW! 1 2 3 4

 

[unreal]

Hey, thanks all for the information. Much help.

At this point, I find it very effective to wave the gun in their face.

I love this quote! It's definitely something that must be done with troublesome students, and I'm surprised that a lot of instructors I work with are very hesitant to teach their students hard lessons like that. Sometimes it makes you feel like a real big hardass, but if it's something that's important then it needs to be done.

I went flying again today with the student I wrote about in my original post. Well, the usual tendencies came out, but this time I had breifed him ahead of time that I'd be doing nothing besides sitting there observing. So, he did a good job of getting us out to the practice area and through a few maneuvers. However, this student has a tendency to become a bit disoriented, even on very short flights. So, you guessed it, when I told him to bring me back to the airport, everything went all to hell.

Usually I've helped him out, but he's well beyond the point where I should be telling him how to get back from the practice areas. So, today, I crossed my arms and told him "I've got nothing but time. Where's your sectional?" Well, a half hour later we finally found the airport and landed. I felt like a bit of a jerk, but by god he'll never get lost in the local area again. When we got back on the ground, he was actually thankful (though a bit frustrated) that I let him dig himself out without any help. I think in the long run it'll help his confidence knowing that he's capable of fixing problems himself.

Anyway, thanks again for the input everyone.

 

[FlyingToIST]

I sometimes simulate mulfunctions for them to take over, especially when it comes to the ATC stuff. 'oh you are able to hear me? I am not able to hear you.. whaat?... well , i guess you will have to make the calls today. i will write this one up when i get back'.... It works all the time
(should we be sharing trade secrets in a forum open to students?)

Make sure that you are not going outside ADM when you are trying to teach the student good adm skills. Namely, looking like having no control and not having a control are two different things.

 

[Princedietrich]

Glad to hear that you had some success with your student Unreal. I know it's difficult to be the "bad guy" but sometimes it's necessary to get a little bit mean. Best of luck to you, and here's to that upcoming solo! :beer: